After months of prayer, I believe He has revealed to me that they don’t. But clearly many saints and popes have taught that they do. I’m scrupulous that I’m imagining things and that God hasn’t really revealed this to me.
On that note, let me try one last time from this angle. All heretics sin when they believe in a heresy, right? But it’s ridiculous to suggest that every single heretic is convinced that his heresy is sinful - otherwise, many (if not most) of them would stop believing the heresy. It’s not as though they believe this heresy out of spite for God, they genuinely believe that they please Him in doing so. So where do you get the confidence to say “this is a sin; that isn’t a sin” ? Couldn’t you similarly be mistaken and consequently hurting God in the smallest of daily actions?
The Bible and the Catholic Catechism define a lot of sins. I have confidence in them.
Couldn’t I be mistaken? Certainly. I have been mistaken many times. But I don’t create a catalog of sins (the official catalog is long enough).
I think that emphasizing sin is only one side of the question. Did I unknowingly hurt someone? Certainly, at times. Does that offend God? I’m sure it does. But the other side of the question, and what some priests have said to concentrate on, is to please God and do good to others. A few years ago on Ash Wednesday, the priest in his sermon asked us to concentrate on the works of mercy during that Lent. Rather than wonder whether I unintentionally committed some small sin each day (if they’re not small, I’m aware of them), I usually ask myself, “Did I do some good today?” And I don’t count my standard prayers or reading the Bible, although they are good things, or taking care of my wife and being good to her, but did I do anything extra for anybody?
What do heretics genuinely believe? I guess you would have to ask each one. I don’t imagine that all heretics have the same attitudes to their beliefs.
That’s the same thing my priest told me, and what some other guys on a differnt forum told me as well.
My problem with that is what you guys are basically telling me is to try and ignore that I’m causing God pain. And I can’t do that because that’s not loving Him with my whole heart.
A notable point is that many times when I sin I also cause others pain. This is something you seem to be emphaizing over and over. I agree. But the key difference is that I just (try to) love others as much as myself. Not with all my heart. This makes all the difference!
I just noticed now as I was typing this up that you did something interesting in the phrasing of your reply. I was asking about hurting God, but you chose to interpret the question as “Did I unknowingly hurt someone? Does that offend God?” No! The question is “Did I unkowingly hurt God?” That makes a world of difference to me, and that’s why I can’t ignore it.
This is really interseting actually, because what you have done is describe my belief. For the past few months what I have believed is that sin does not cause God to suffer, rather it offends God and (potentially) causes others to suffer. And despite this whole topic being about sin and God’s suffering, you have (subconciously?) phrased your reply in the way that you did.
I don’t know about the other guys, but that is not what I am basically saying. I am saying that there are two aspects to Godly behavior. Remember the guy in the parable who buried his talent in the ground to avoid risking the master’s money? Avoiding sin is one thing. Concentrating on doing good is another. You have said that you might be sinning in small ways and not know it. You can do good even in small ways and know it. If you give as much attention to that (maybe you are already) you can please God.
I fully understand and agree with you that there are 2 aspects here, and also that it is wrong to try and, for example, minimize social interaction in the hopes of minimizing sin.
But this type of advice doesn’t address the first aspect (avoiding sin), and that’s why it seems like you’re advising me to ignore it. I just don’t see how the second aspect (doing good) is relevant.
I realized that there might be some misunderstanding going on. Let me illustrate by an analogy: imagine that every time I do something wrong a child gets whipped bloody, but every time I do something good the child gets fed. It feels like I’m complaining that I’m scrupulous that I can’t tell if I’m doing something wrong and the child is getting whipped, but I’m being told “but look, if you do really good the child will get a 5 course meal.” I just don’t understand what it is that I’m not getting about what you guys are trying to tell me.
By “concentrate on” I don’t mean “ignore everything else,” I mean “emphasize.” Also, your analogy is not real and is extremely dramatic. I dare say there is no child being whipped or fed depending on your actions, and possibly not anywhere in the world is that happening to a child based on someone’s actions. Whoever was doing that to a child would be a criminal. So how about giving some real examples of what you could do and their actual consequences? What specifically are you worried about doing wrong, and what could you emphasize that would please God?
You wrote, “If I’m not sure something is sinful, I assume that it is,” and you wondered whether you were “sinning by lying in bed an extra 15 mins.” Wondering about whether something is sinful is something I think you could get away from. We have commandments to do good and commandments forbidding evil. Sloth is a sin. If I am not neglecting something I should be doing, then resting for 15 minutes extra is not a sin. One rested, I can do a lot of good in 15 minutes. Instead of wondering whether I took a sinful amount of rest, I could look for a way to carry out one of the works of mercy for 15 minutes. This is what I am talking about with concentrating on doing good.
Instead of assuming that things are sinful or wondering whether they are, I can turn to the commandments of God and of the church.
But what about Jesus? “Every sin you commit is like another nail in His Cross” haven’t you heard this? Or, as Pope Francis put it in Dilexit Nos, “Jesus’s side is continually pierced by us ungrateful sinners“ (paraphrase). And this kind of language is repeated many times during prayers like “the way of the Cross”.
This is what I’ve been referring to all this time when I talk about God’s suffering. It’s immeasurably worse that it’s God Himself suffering this and not a human child - the analogy is not that bad at all.
I agree. But let’s say I plan to rest for an hour and then after that do something, such as pray. After resting for an hour I still feel tired and want to rest for another half an hour. Was I wrong in estimating my plans that an hour of rest would be sufficient? Or am I being slothful in wanting to rest more? In these situations I honestly have no idea and I go crazy trying to figure it out. I can’t just say “it’s no big deal if I do the wrong thing here” if I believe that guessing incorrectly is going to cause God pain.
This is where I came in.
“One rested”: I mistyped “once rested.”
Praying for the living and the dead is one of the works of mercy.
I have no more advice other than to turn to the Bible and the Church to see what are sins and which sins are serious.
Alright, thank you for your patience and conversation.
Peace to all,
OMNiLogically, How to “not sin.”
Failed choice becomes to love of to love not, from the Old Tree of Knowledge, fulfilled choice becomes from the New Tree of Knowlege through the Tree of Eternal Life for Both natures, spirit and life becoming loving only and loving with only the most love, therefore logically there and be no more sin from not loving with only the most love becoming again in all One Family, I believe.
We must most love and only with the most love becoming again in all One God in One Holy Family.
Peace always,
Stephen
Agreed, but not everyone knows how to love. Imagine a boy who loves his girl but says something hurtful by mistake. While we’re here in this world we similarly often hurt God without intending to.