Isn’t the Republican party more inclined with Catholic dogma and teaching than the liberal party? How can a Catholic vote for the democratic party which advocates abortion on demand and euthanasia and their anything goes approach to morals and standards?
Peace to all,
So true.
Jesus from the God from the Faith of Abraham asks, “Whose face is on the coin.”
Man renderes to God and Caesar.
And we know Caesar renders to the same God.
Peace always,
Stephen
Republicans like to call Democrats “liberals,” but most, today, are really progressives. The term “liberal,” politically speaking, did not used to mean what it does now.
I am a Libertarian. And there are a few different philosophies within libertarianism. Classical Liberalism is one of these, but when libertarians use the term “liberal” they do not mean Democrat. There are some Democrats who more align with Classical Liberalism, but there are not too many of them left.
In fact, what many new so-called Conservatives actually believe align very similarly to what Old School Democrats once believed. The Overton Windows have shifted.
Democrats are really good at the long game and are successful at corrupting the culture, because they use the tactic of incrementalism (think of the analogy of a frog in a boiling pot or Google’s creepy, shifting line).
Many so-called “New Conservatives” embrace same-sex couples (like Dave Rubin), but draw the line there (for now).
Some neo-Conservatives even now justify abortion in some cases (like Tomi Lahren). They are now where the Democrats were 30 years ago.
Michael Malice (who’s Parents fled from the Russian authoritarianism of the Soviet Union) coined the saying, “Modern Republicans are just Democrats driving the speed limit.” And there is some truth to this. Both are driving us off a cliff (financially and morally), but one is just driving faster than the other.
I know it sounds like I am contradicting myself. Are Democrats speeding or are they incrementalists? The answer is YES. They got a thirty-year or more headscarf.
When it comes to morals. There are immoral Republicans and there are immoral Democrats. There are immoral Libertarians too, though libertarianism (not to be confused with libertinism) is a moral philosophy. What you are describing, however, is policy.
On the most obvious, abortion:
Both Democrats and Republicans have done a pretty good job of framing their side as “moral” and of demonizing their opponents. And maybe I am guilty of doing the same towards both Democrats and Republicans.
Let’s take Abortion for instance. The Democrats frame abortion as being compassionate and understanding of women in distress. While Republicans tend to call women who have had abortions “baby murderers.” It has been framed as this vs. that; us vs. them. And both claim to have a moral high-ground. Both feel like standing up for their point of view is righteous.
The truth is, there are women in distress and who find themselves in a scary and worrisome situation. And also true, choosing to end the life of an innocent unborn human being will not make them feel better in the long run (without convincing themselves that they are doing nothing wrong).
You remember how I mentioned some Libertarians as being immoral as well? Not all Libertarians agree on this issue. Some argue in favor of evictionism under the law. This is where one does not view abortion as murder, but rather as evicting a person from a home in which someone else owns. During Covid, some Democratic Politicians and activist Judges began making it illegal for landlords to evict residents who were not, or who could not, pay their rent. Democrats were framing their actions as being compassionate and any individual who provides homes for others as “evil” or “greedy.”
Murray N. Rothbard, a Libertarian Philosopher whom I sometimes agree with on some things, was a proponent of evictionism as a legal philosophy. He would use and analogy of a stow-away on a ship. If you find someone, uninvited, on your ship, you have the right to throw them overboard (a similar argument that Republicans use when it comes to illegal immigrants). Rothbard’s dear friend, Fr. James Sadowsky, challenged Rothbard’s view and asked, is not the more compassionate choice to dock the ship first, before you throw someone overboard, who would otherwise surely die?
The Bible speaks about how Christians ought to treat illegal aliens. However, Scripture is not promoting a political policy of open borders.
Also in the Bible, some Christians are described as being in voluntary communal living situations. Some Democratic Socialists will use this passage as an endorsement for involuntary socialism/communism. Again, Scripture is not promoting a political policy.
Back to abortion, some so-called “progressives” will take verses of the Bible as promoting abortion, but Scripture defends life as a gift/blessing. It certainly never promotes abortion as a political policy.
Your question (correct me if I’m wrong) is how can Catholic Christians be Democrats? Are not more of their policies in contradiction to moral truth than Republicans? It is a valid question, but the answer is not so simple, but rather a matter of framing. Republicans (and Democrats) have traditionally supported murdering innocent babies in countries who’s leaders do evil things. How often have you heard that the bad guys are hiding weapons under day-cares, schools, and hospitals? And we believe this narrative without questioning (because our government would never lie to us ; ). However, let’s say it is true. I go back to what Fr. Sadowsky asked, Wouldn’t it be better to let these innocent ones live, rather than dropping the bombs? But maybe we didn’t know at the time. Even Doctors will give you a pregnancy test, before performing certain procedures, to make sure that there is not an innocent human life that may be harmed by performing what may be necessary or good.
I hope you do not think that I am advocating for abortion. I am certainly not! In fact, I am a member of the Libertarian Pro-Life Caucus.
I believe in negative rights: life, liberty, and private-property (in this order). If a politician can’t even get the right to life right, then I do not trust that anything else they hold is correct nor sacred.
I oppose positive rights: though seemingly compassionate, these are rights that are forced upon others to provide a service or good to another (involuntarily). Isn’t forcing a woman to carry a baby involuntarily a violation of her negative rights? This is something that political philosophers debate and will continue to debate. And this is why we must lead with the compassion argument. Yes, we care about the life of the Mother, and we care about the life of the unborn human, who is right where God designed him/her to be. Most ships were not designed to transport stowaways, and yet, it is more compassionate to not kill uninvited guests on a ship. How much more compassionate is it not to kill human beings who are in the womb, which was designed for the unborn.
Now if the stow-away comes at you with a gun, then yes, you have the right to defend yourself. But, babies in the womb do not carry guns nor do they have intent to kill or harm the life of the Mother.
Thank you for the discussion and welcome to this forum community, where we do not all agree, but enjoy sharing each of our perspectives.
I invite all Americans to read “The Law” by Frédéric Bastiat. He was both a Catholic Christian and a libertarian & economic philosopher.
It all boils down to the tried and true statement-- vote for the lesser evil, which, I believe, is the Republican party and conservative values. Don’t forget, it’s the Republican party that freed the slaves. The liberal party took God out of public schools. The Republican party advocates for traditional families while the liberal party tries to destroy them. The liberal party tries to take Christ out of Christmas, while the Republican party is just the opposite. As for illegal aliens, every country has borders, because without borders, there is no country. The US welcomes immigrants that come in legally. Republicans try to lift people out of poverty, while liberals try to keep the poor, poor for their own vested interests. As a Catholic, the democratic party will never get my vote.
Peace to all,
The meaning of the staff, known in Latin as the “ferula pontificalis,” unites “the mission of proclaiming the mystery of love expressed by Christ on the cross with his glorious manifestation in the resurrection.” Pope Leo
When Pope Leo mentions the Word “manifestation,” what Pope Leo is logically trying to say is: The Power of The Holy Spirit Family One God in being manifests from the Powers of The Holy Family for the created souls of all mankind through the created flesh in all mankind becoming One Body through the Christ for all becoming transformed, glorified and transfigured for all Creation in One Holy Spirit Family
Intelligentia logica indestructa, indefecta, praeexistens, rationaliter per carnem in terram fit, per duas naturas Christus ex spiritu per carnem pro omnibus pro omni genere humano iterum in omni creatione factus, in una divina familia spiritualis, unus Deus in existendo, familia ex fide Abrahae, credo.
Why was the Embasy moved, from Tel-Avav to Jerusalem? in all generalizations? We did not religiously have to move politically the Embassy from Tel-Aviv to Jerusalem in 2020, I believe. When we moved teh Embasy from Tel-Aviv to Jerusalem, we logically slapped Islam in the face buy doing so and took America off of the negotiation table for peace between the Muslims and Israel in the Religious and Political Conflict. Rationally and logically, The Caesars of today from America, from all over the world are supporting a political war for Israel when Israel say they are in a religious, Holy conflict with the Muslims in Palestine, I Believe. Rationally, logically, we are supporting politically a war with Israel conflicting with the Muslims in Palestine, I believe. What do the Muslims think of America, and we are not judging or preaching, no proselytizing and only we speak in generalizing for all from faith becoming again in all logically, One Family, through all generalizations, I believe.
Jesus says, “Whose face is on the coin.” so OMNiLogically, if Man renders to God and Caesar, Then Caesar should render also to the Same One God in being, I believe.
Jesus came to remove the contention and separation anxiety and return all to mental joy and unite all in mental love from fear of separation becoming mental happiness from One Father through One Mother for One Son becoming though The Christ for all mankind becoming again for all Creation in One Divine Spirit Family One God in being.
Almighty ever-living God, who govern all things, both in heaven and on earth, mercifully hear the pleading of your people and bestow your peace on our times. Created from the Father are all mankind becoming through the Baptized New Eve for Jesus Virgin Born in The New Adam becoming Lord through The Christ for all for your Son from the Mother, who lives and reigns with you, with all in the unity of the Holy Spirit Family becoming again for all Creation in One God in being, for ever and ever.
And we are not preaching or proselytizing and we are only generalizing for all becoming again in One Family, through all generalizations from The Faith of Abraham becoming again for all Creation in One Divine Spirit Family One God in being.
Logically God wants a Body and Love and creates the flesh manifested by the Power of the Divine Spirit for created souls of all through the flesh becoming in all One Body in all becoming again in all One Divine Spirit Family One God in being, OMNILogically through all generalizations, I believe.
The logical undefiied intelligence unfailing preexisting becomes to earth rationally through the flesh becoming through the Two Nature Christ from the spirit through the flesh for all for all mankind becoming again in all Creation in One Divine Spirit Family One God in being A Family from The Faith of Abraham, I believe.
Through all generations, Logically through failed flesh from spirit corruption become created Adam and Eve becoming from dust through separated ribs, Greek for whole sides equal in power becoming One Body through two natures fromThe Spirit through The Life become sanctified flesh immortality and spirit incorruption Baptized in the New Eve from the Immaculate Conception through The Virgin Birth becoming for Jesus the New Adam becoming in all through the Christ for all mankind becoming spirit and life brothers and sisters through the blood from Sacrifice through Penance forgiven in all becoming Sons and Daughters of God in all for all re-Sanctified and Confirmed through transformed immortally glorified flesh glorified from Divine Spirit Incorruption transfigured in all re-imaged becoming again in One Divine Spirit Family One God in being, OMNILogicalGod, I believe.
**The Glory of the Resurrection is manifested from The Power of the Holy Spirit Family for Jesus through Mary’s victory over death through His “Immortalized Immaculate Humanity” from His “Holy Spirit Incorruption” becoming The Christ for all manking becoming again for all Creation In One Holy Spirit Family One God in being.
We know not to preach or proselytize and only in generalizations can we become again through both natures from the incorruptible spirit becoming out of The Bosom of Abraham for all through the immortal immaculate life becoming for all Creation becoming glorified becoming transfigured in all becoming again for all Creation in One Divine Family One God in being, OMNiLogically.
Peace always,
Stephen
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I’m not Republican or Democrat, even though I vote conservatively. But, I don’t trust a lot of people up there. There’s a very small handful of people that I think are trying their best to listen to their constituents, but if you ask me, both parties are corrupt. Now you have Republicans who are RINO’s and they’re just as corrupt as the Democrats. As far as I’m concerned, Republicans now have the same playbook the Democrats do. The whole lot of them can’t be trusted! If you would’ve asked me years ago which party was the best I would’ve said Republicans, but nowadays, they’re just as crooked as Democrats. Better to not align with any party and vote based on your values.
I choose not to vote for evil at all. This mantra of “lesser of two evils” is a tool to use shame and fear to get you to vote for this Party or that. I do not vote nor buys things based on fear nor shame.
I consider myself conservative, but I am not loyal to any Party. I am more loyal to the Libertarian Party, but even still, I do not blindly vote for evil, even from within the Libertarian Party.
And the Republican Party who enslaved during Covid. It was the Republican Governor who forced Ohioans to cover their mouths. Told us we were non-essential. Shut down our Churches, when we need God more.
I do not believe there should be government schools. I’m not even fond of making children pledge allegiance to a flag, when my allegiance is with God. My youngest attends Catholic School. They not only read the Bible, they attend Mass. If there were no government schools, private schools would be cheaper. There would be more competition. And if you wanted to send your child to a school that does not teach Christian values and there is no mention of God, you have the freedom, as a Parent, to send your child to a private school that is other than Christian.
Again, Progressives are not “Liberals.” Most are Marxists/Socialists. Socialists see the Family as a threat to their political ideology. Though Karl Marx’s Dad converted from Judaism to Lutheranism, Karl was an Atheist. Karl Marx had two daughters who committed suicide.
We agree. I am not open-borders.
It is not the roll of government to “lift people out of poverty.” It is the roll of government to get out of the way of individuals trying to provide for their Families. Yes, social programs result in keeping individuals poor and dependent on the state. Republicans have their own forms of social programs in the form of subsidies.
I recommend Rothbard’s book titles, “What Has Government Done to Our Money?” and Thomas Sowell’s, “Basic Economics.”
I too could never vote for a Democrat except someone locally whom I know personally. For instance, a guy from my Exodus 90 Group is the County Treasurer. He is a good guy and very capable to do the job (and yet, for whatever reason, is a member of the Democratic Party).
Republicans are not entitled to my vote. They think they are. Here in Ohio, it is the the Ohio GOP who kicked Libertarians off the ballot (OH SB 193), though they claim to be about election integrity. They also redraw the districting maps in their favor. Both Democrats and Republicans cheat in different ways to win power & control over those they disagree with.
Going back to morals for a second. Many of the elected Republicans in Ohio received campaign contributions from Les Wexner (Epstein’s largest backer). In 2018, Victoria’s Secret mogul quit the Republican Party to become politically Independent. Like Trump the Business man used to do, he has given to both Democrats & Republicans. When Ohio, Republican Elected officials are confronted and asked if they would be willing to return the money they have received from Wexner, many pretend like they have never heard of him. Anyone who know anything about the Epstein case knows that Epstein lived just north of the Ohio Capitol in a Mansion belonging to Wexner!
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying these individuals should return the money, but don’t play stupid. Wexner’s name is all over The Ohio State University’s Athletic facilities as well. He pretty much developed and shaped the entire suburb of New Albany, where Epstein used to live.
If your response to any critique of Republicans is, Well, Democrats are worse, I don’t think you are holding your own accountable for their behavior.
Like Cade, I don’t vote for evil, and like him I voted for one Democrat for a local office because the candidate seemed good.
When I found the American Solidarity Party, based on Catholic principles and totally prolife, I joined. It’s small but growing, and its social policies (such as government caring for the poor) are not something that libertarians or many Republicans would agree with, but it’s something I could work for in good conscience. Would it be better if the Church rather than the government provided all the sustenance and health care needed by the poor? Sure, but I wouldn’t reduce aid to the poor to satisfy a political principle. I used to be poor, and I and my family got help from the government and the Church.
I used to be a Republican too, but Trump and many of his party have mostly abandoned any effort to protect the unborn. An article (“March for Life’s Miscalculation”) in National Review on Jan. 22 stated, “During the 2024 campaign, both Trump and Vance stated their support for legal chemical abortion and announced that they didn’t intend to regulate it. … At Trump’s behest, the GOP removed pro-life language that had been in the party platform for decades, language that invoked the unborn child’s ‘fundamental right to life which cannot be infringed.’ It also removed language calling for a constitutional amendment and legislation ‘to make clear that the 14th Amendment’s protections apply to children before birth.’ …The platform also supports in vitro fertilization, which pro-lifers have long opposed because it destroys embryonic human life.”
Trump also called Florida’s law banning abortion once the baby’s heartbeat can be detected a mistake and said he would veto a national ban on abortion.
I once was a Democrat too. Frank Pallone ran for Congress as a prolife Democrat, so I joined the Democratic party so I could vote for him in the primary. He wasn’t in Washington long before he switched to being pro-abortion, so in the next primary I was a volunteer in Pat Daly’s campaign against him, but she lost, and I went back to being Republican until the Republicans started abandoning prolife principles.
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