Hi Earth student ,Sorry am not pax ,whom are you addressing,any way, sorry if I may use scripture to make you understand or the catholic doctrine,Truth is Jesus Jn 14:6,Jn 17 :17, majority many times are wrong, minority are right,all that the world goes after are what majority people say and do, open-minded doesn’t mean broad-minded on the wrong thinks or errors.to be open minded to words the truth religion,you will know by their fruits,who is most persecuted,if there is no Christianity whole world would be in darkness ,most of the inventors are Christians.love begins at love no matter what ever though,they tell it . God bless
Oh my bad haha. I thought you were Pax, there’s a guy on here who goes by the name of Pax and I thought maybe he made a duplicate account on here. Sorry about that lol.
I don’t think what you say is true, and I’ll tell you why. There are people, not just throughout Earth’s history, but even people today who can a live not only a very fulfilling life, but a good life and they don’t necessarily need God in it. Now, am I an Atheist or I simply believe in nothing? Not at all, again I’m Spiritual, and yes I do believe in one God and I also believe in Jesus. But as far as Jesus’s life is concerned and the God of the OT, I don’t follow what Catholics/Christians believe in regards to that.
If there was no Christianity, that doesn’t mean that the world would be in darkness. I don’t believe that. Because even if religion was not a thing, the teachings would still be around and available to everyone. And, with the amount of followers that particular religion has, I highly doubt a world without Christianity would be one of chaos. There would still be a lot of people who would chase goodness and purity. I truly believe that. Religion is simply mankind trying to innerstand the supernatural (or invisible) world. The world doesn’t truly need religion, all you really need are the teachings. Everything else is, more or less, icing on top of the cake. I still think making a religion a non-profit business is such a bad idea. I know it says in The Bible that Jesus supposidely said “Upon this rock, I will build my Church”, but I personally don’t think he was talking about an actual building because we are the Church really. I think, if anything, Jesus was anti-religious considering that he always had to butt heads with the religious leaders of his day. Now, that’s a personal interpretation, but I believe this to be true because if there was a “true religion” would it not state that somewhere in The Bible? Would Jesus not say “My Church is the true religion.”? Or something like that? The fact that you don’t need to be a part of any actual religion in order to be saved makes me question why have religion to begin with then?
Just something to think about.
For us Jesus is the Truth Jesus is the truth Jn 17:17, it’s t’s because of God’ mercy and love He sustains and provides by his providence, the universe for he is the creator Isaiah 41:20 so that all may see and know,all may consider and understand,that the hand of the Lord has done this,the Holy One of Israel has created it. Isaiah 5:20 Ah, you who call evil good and good evil,who put darkness for light and light for darkness,who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter! 21 Ah, you who are wise in your own eyes,and shrewd in your own sight!
Matthew 5:45 so that you may be children of your Father in heaven; for he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the righteous and on the unrighteous.*that’s why people are living fulfilling lives or a good live ,but on deeper reality, their lives are materialistic fulfillment ,king Alexander when he died requested that he when buried should keep his hands stretched out because he who Conquered almost half the world is now empty handed, cannot take nothing.
Your God is Atheist your believe in nothing,so nothing is your idol,you worship nothing and atheist .you mutilate God and you divide God of oT is no the Holy Trinity same ,Revelation 1:8 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever Hebrews 13:8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.
Why not, looking at the science and technology literature, spirituality or for that matter in any field,most of them were Christians, what would the world be with out them , primitive your way of goodness and purity are only external .but in reality we are created for eternity.you and everything thing exist because of God’ ,even if you and some like your don’t want to acknowledge The existence of God.
The Guilt of Humankind
Romans 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and wickedness of those who by their wickedness suppress the truth. 19 For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. 20 Ever since the creation of the world his eternal power and divine nature, invisible though they are, have been understood and seen through the things he has made. So they are without excuse; 21 for though they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their senseless minds were darkened. 22 Claiming to be wise, they became fools; 23 and they exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling a mortal human being or birds or four-footed animals or reptiles.
24 Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the degrading of their bodies among themselves, 25 because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen.
26 For this reason God gave them up to degrading passions. Their women exchanged natural intercourse for unnatural, 27 and in the same way also the men, giving up natural intercourse with women, were consumed with passion for one another. Men committed shameless acts with men and received in their own persons the due penalty for their error.
28 And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind and to things that should not be done. 29 They were filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, covetousness, malice. Full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, craftiness, they are gossips, 30 slanderers, God-haters,[f] insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, rebellious toward parents, 31 foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless. 32 They know God’s decree, that those who practice such things deserve to die—yet they not only do them but even applaud others who practice them.
Pax
I’ve already said what I needed to say regarding The Bible. You just can’t trust 40 people you’ve never met in your life. I know it requires faith, but I refuse to put my faith in people thousands of years ago who do not know how the culture is today, and what people hold true today. I’m not saying The Bible is a terrible book, but I would question some of the things that go on, cause some things simply do not add up.
Really? So you’re going to assume that a God that I worship is Atheist? Is this what you truly believe all because your religion says so? You know, no offense to you and the people in your religion, but assuming anything (doesn’t even have to be religion) doesn’t help your side of the argument.
To illustrate my point, I have an Aunt who has healing hands. She can literally heal people with her hands. And Catholics, to this day, will say that she’s making pacts with demons, or she sold her soul to get her abilities. And yet, every time she gets done with someone, that person feels 30x better. She’s been doing this for years, have healed hundreds if not thousands of people, and to this day Catholics will continue to spread false rumors under the assumption that she sides with demons. I bet if people actually got to know her, they could see God working through her, but instead she’s an “evil person?” Give me a break! She gave grandpa an extra 10 years to live, and had she not have tried to heal him, we would’ve lost him a long time ago.
You would do well to get to know people better instead of judging someone all because they don’t agree or follow your particular religion. God loves everyone, including those who do not follow your religion. He has to, He created these people after all. “A hueman is a hueman no matter how small.”
Since when did I say God doesn’t exist? I just told you I believe in a God. How is believing in a God Atheist? That makes literally 0 sense. An Atheist is a person who doesn’t believe in any God or God’s, period! I believe in one. Make it make sense. So this idea that I don’t want to acknowledge the existence of God is a false statement. Again, Atheism says it doesn’t believe in ANY God or God’s but I do.
I’d like to end with, I’m sorry if it sounds like I am mad at you or upset at you. I try not to resort to insults or talking about your character. There’s a reason why I’ve remained quiet for a long time and that was because I was turning this forum into a debate forum which is something I didn’t want. I also don’t desire to be the reason why people leave this forum. There’s a lot of really good people in this forum, including you, and I would feel bad if I was the reason why this forum didn’t continue. So I want you to know that I’m trying my best to have a civil argument with you. I don’t hate your religion, nor do I hate the people who are in your religion, but I was at one point a Roman Catholic and I basically found out that the Church wasn’t for me.
I hope you have a good day, and please know I have no ill intentions towards you or anyone else.
That’s your personal opinion, this is a Catholic site you cannot stop others if they use to describe or defend one’s faith ,in order to explain, encourage and correct errors,. you have to put you faith and Trust in Jesus Hebrews 12: 2 looking to Jesus the pioneer and perfecter of our faith, who for the sake of the joy that was set before him endured the cross.
The word of God Jesus Christ is the same yesterday today and forever Hebrew 13:8 it is timeless, irrespective of culture,creed,or nations even to the end of the world ,for it is written in Wisdom 1:3 For perverse thoughts separate people from God,and when his power is tested, it exposes the foolish;
The doctrine that emerges is this: The Holy Spirit is the divine author of all Scripture.thou they are men moved by the Holy Spirit O, that we had all day to talk about the wonderful implications of this doctrine! The Holy Spirit is the author of Scripture. Therefore, it is true (Psalm 119:142) and altogether reliable (Hebrews 6:18). It is powerful, working its purpose in our hearts (1 Thessalonians 2:13) and not returning empty to the One who sent it (Isaiah 55:10–11). It is pure, like silver refined in a furnace seven times (Psalm 12:6). It is sanctifying (John 17:17). It gives life (Psalm 119:37, 50, 93, 107; John 6:63; Matthew 4:4). It makes wise (Psalm 19:7; 119:99–100). It gives joy (Psalm 19:8; 119:16, 92, 111, 143, 174) and promises great reward (Psalm 19:11). It gives strength to the weak (Psalm 119:28) and comfort to the distraught (Psalm 119:76) and guidance to the perplexed (Psalm 119:105) and salvation to the lost (Psalm 119:155; 2 Timothy 3:15). The wisdom of God in Scripture is inexhaustible. This the Truth till the end of time.
Pax
Even Jesus respect’s,your decisions and he never infringe your privacy ,ever if you choose the wrong path , Jesus never forces any one to change, became he gave us free will.
Free will means not to do as you like or think and do what ever you want understand the sun, but is this that you do the right thing,to follow the right path,to think and act rightly and justly.and do God’s will always.i only tried to help you for good.am also done here.i can only pray for you that one day God may enlighten you to the truth.Jn17:17 .God bless.
I just want to say that The Bible is a horrible source to use for anything. Modern academia states that in order for any source to be considered a “credible source” it must have a “Work’s Cited” page. In The Bible, I do not see a Works Cited page. That’s an automatic red flag to begin with, because if there is no Work Cited page, then that tells me that there’s no way this can possibly be rooted in truth. This is why people are constantly saying “Just have faith.” Well, one thing’s for sure, it takes faith to believe in those words, because I have no way of saying if what I am reading is actually true. In fact, the only thing I can say is, it must be based on heresay, because there’s no Work’s Cited page. And that would make sense, because a lot of these stories were passed down orally. You should look up telephone and how that games is played. Telephone is a shining example of certain concepts being lost in translation. Shoot even my grandma, who I loved dearly, she played telephone all the time. She would hear it once, and then she’d tell someone else, and it would be slightly different from whom she heard it from, and I’m sure it would morph or evolve as it got passed down. The Bible is no different, it’s a book of stories that are based on hearsay. I’m sorry, but that’s the truth. The Bible has no business being involved in Academia unless you’re a private school, then that’s different, but I would argue that it has any business being in Academia period, but that’s just an opinion.
But are we truly free? Think about it. You can either follow Jesus, proclaim he is your Lord and Savior, and be able to get to Heaven, and for all the non-believers, they basically go to Hell correct? Well, if this religion is true, I don’t wanna go to hell, nor does anyone I know of. But, the problem is, we’re not really given much of a choice if you really think about it. If you choose God and accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior, and recognize you cannot be saved without Jesus’s sacrifice on the cross, you will go to Heaven. But if you don’t accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior, and you don’t believe that Jesus died for our sins, then the only place your going is one of eternal torment and suffering. So basically, this is a form of coercion. If your God is coercing people, that is not love, that is a form of manipulation. You either follow Me, or you’ll spend your eternity being in hellfire and you will suffer all the infinite days of your life. Plus, if I don’t believe in your God fully, I cannot force myself to believe in something I don’t find true to begin with. There’s not like a switch in my head that I can just turn on and now all of a sudden I believe. Belief doesn’t work that way. I have tried so many times to believe, there was even a period where I really tried to believe that God could ease the pain and hurt in my heart. When people loose faith, it’s not like it’s a one day thing, it’s a gradual process. And, honestly, at the time, I didn’t want to lose my faith. Are you kidding? This is the faith of both sets of my grandparents, this is what I was brought up with. And the fact that I tried so hard to believe that your God was real, and yet didn’t get any answer or divine intervention just proved to me that your God isn’t the true one. You know, it’s so easy for someone of faith to judge those who have fallen away from the Church, but it’s not easy for one who has lost their faith to believe that that God is the true one.
The biggest reason why I left the Catholic Church was because, on a purely intellectual level, I could not make sense of what it was I believed in. If God was actually real, I don’t think logic and reasoning would be beyond explaining the nature of God. But, in Catholicism, God breaks all rules of logic and reasoning. If God was real, then his nature should be able to demonstrate that God is real, but his own nature goes against logic and reasoning. I don’t need to cite verses from your Bible to demonstrate that your god is illogical and unreasonable. I can literally take just about any story (with the exception of a few) and show you how unreasonable and illogical your god really is. Cause, when I was a Catholic, and a devout Catholic, all the way to where I’m at now, I’m able to conclude that your god doesn’t make sense at all. He expects his people to follow the 10 Commandments, but yet god is able to break any of those commandments all because he’s given the title as “god?” It’s ok for god to kill entire families, including those with children, but it’s not ok for us to kill others? And that’s the biggest beef I have with your god, because a god that thinks it’s ok to kill a child is a terrible horrible god. I cannot see, under ANY circumstance where it’s ok to kill a child, cause even in the womb, that child has the right to live. To me, that is the worst crime you could ever commit, which is to kill a baby or even a child. And your god does it, quite a number of times. And you can go ahead and throw all the bible verses you want, the fact of the matter is, your god kills women and children and spares no one. Even Lot’s wife wasn’t spared, and this was a family who did nothing but believe and worship God. You would think God would extend an olive branch or perform an act of mercy by turning her back into a hueman, but now that entire family only has a dad they can count on. So much for doing what god wanted you to do, cause now your wife is gone for good. God killed that woman, and didn’t spare her at all.
The New Testament is a bit different, but one thing I can tell you, the Jesus depicted in the New Testament doesn’t line up with the god in the Old Testament. The God of the OT, and the God of the NT are very night and day compared to eachother. Kind of weird how that works. But I can prove to you that your God doesn’t follow logic or reasoning, 2 very simple things. This is more about God in the OT. Jesus does some things that are odd to me, but for the most part, as a hueman being I can relate way more to Jesus then the OT god. The OT god seems to be out for blood, but not Jesus. So something odd is going on there.
That’s why Jesus is the “New Covenant”. A more personal and relatable God.
Yes, but according to you all, the god of the OT is still god the Father is it not? So technically you still worship that same god. So, either Jesus came from an entirely different god (which to me seems more plausible), or Jesus inherited more of Mary’s traits then his own Father. In fact, it would seem like Jesus only inherited Mary’s traits and none of His Father’s, because this is a person who demonstrates all the light aspects of the Divine Masculine.
I personally believe that Jesus came from a different God, one that is higher than the one in the OT. The one in the OT is a jealous one. Why? Because even the god in the OT recognizes that there’s a God higher than him, one that created all of our souls. Keep in mind I said that the God that is above the god of the OT is the one that created all of our souls. Everything else that was created, like Earth, and it’s inhabitants, like the birds, and the trees, and huemans, all of that was created by the god of the OT. The god of the OT wanted to mimic the Realm of Light where the original God dwelled, but because the god of the OT didn’t quite innerstand the blueprint of the Realm of Light, he could only mimic that realm. The only thing that is real in this 3rd Dimensional reality is our souls, since our souls were made exclusively by the Monad (or in this case, The One). Everything else is but a mimic of the Realm of Light. Our souls are like batteries for this avatar we inhabit, and the goal is to learn as much as you can to escape a possible reincarnation cycle. If you have karma on your soul, now is the moment to work through your karma, cause depending on how much karma you’ve accumulated will inevitably lead to being reincarnated.
But regardless, I wish nothing but the best for all of you. God loves everyone, including those who do not know him or like him. God knew that by imbuing your consciousness (or soul) with Free Will that there would be some that wouldn’t follow him and don’t know him as well as others. And God knew this would happen. That’s why reincarnation is one of the most loving things you can do for a person. It’s a Spiritual redo button, and it would make sense that a loving God would want to see all of his children in the Heavenly Dimensions and not to be stuck down here. So God allows you to continue to be reincarnated so you can break these nasty cycles we all seem to be stuck in. To me that is much more loving then sending someone to a place of eternal torment. I believe in punishment, but the punishment has to fit the crime, and there’s no crime I know of that warrants eternal suffering, no matter how heinous the crime is. The only time a person would spend an eternity suffering is if they were to commit a crime for an eternity, which is impossible, cause nothing lasts forever in this Dimension. Honestly, going to a place of eternal suffering and torment is just cruel at this point. No loving God would actually do that. That’s why reincarnation seems like a way more loving thing to do to a person.
Wrong ,the God wants all to be saved,it’s it your free will which makes the wrong choices living desolately .Wisdom 1:3 For perverse thoughts separate people from God,and when his power is tested, it exposes the foolish;4 because wisdom will not enter a deceitful soul,or dwell in a body enslaved to sin.5 For a holy and disciplined spirit will flee from deceit,and will leave foolish thoughts behind,and will be ashamed at the approach of unrighteousness. because God did not make death,and he does not delight in the death of the living.14 For he created all things so that they might exist;the generative forces of the world are wholesome,and there is no destructive poison in them,and the dominion of Hades is not on earth.15 For righteousness is immortal.
Mark 12:24 Jesus said to them, "Is not this the reason you are wrong, that you know neither the scriptures nor the power of God?
John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life.
2 Corinthians 3:3 3 and you show that you are a letter of Christ, prepared by us, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.the law of God are written in there hearts even though they don’t know Christ,they have no excuse, that’s why they have goodness and other human virtues even though they don’t know God God is mercyful,other wise nothing.
1 Timothy 2:3-4 This is right and is acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires everyone to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
Psalm 78:8 and that they should not be like their ancestors,a stubborn and rebellious generation,a generation whose heart was not steadfast,whose spirit was not faithful to God.
2 Corinthians 4:4 In their case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. 5 For we do not proclaim ourselves; we proclaim Jesus Christ as Lord and ourselves as your slaves for Jesus’ sake. 6 For it is the God who said, “Let light shine out of darkness,” who has shone in our hearts to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.
Ok fine…you want to utilize man’s book for mankind, then let’s do this. Because I bet you that what I’m talking about is true. So, lemme break down what The Bible says, and all I’m doing is trying to make sense of your Biblical quotes. Here it goes…
Ok, before I touch on these lovely Bible verses, 2 questions for ya: Who created everything? And, when God kills anyone (including babies and children), does it say anywhere that God regrets killing those people? Does it say anywhere that killing his own Creation weighs heavily on God’s heart? Answer those 2 questions and we’ll get back on this. (To help you out, I’m referring to the OT, not the NT)
So far Jesus seems to agree with me.
So these are all lovely and good, but nowhere in this text does it specifically say that those who do not believe in God and those that do not accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior are going to be allowed into Heaven. Yes, God says here that those who don’t know Christ or God but yet still exude goodness God will have mercy on them. God even says it is right and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires everyone to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. But nowhere in those verses does it state that these same people will be saved, it just says God is glad that some who do not know him, yet are virtuous and good, God sees that it is right and acceptable in His sight, but just because it’s good and acceptable in his eyes doesn’t guarantee you Heaven. It just means God’s happy that a person can still display goodness and other virtues without his help. Funny how God’s ok if someone is an Atheist but displays virtuous traits, but Catholics are the first to judge Atheists. Makes me wonder what God truly thinks about Atheists.
Yup, those crazy babies and little children, how dare them being stubborn and rebellious. God was so right to kill all of those babies and children even though nowadays the average married couple see that babies and children can’t differentiate between right and wrong, hence why you have a Mother and a Father who teach them the difference between right and wrong. You can tell God’s mind back then must have been very primitive in dealing with innocent children…I mean it even says that a child’s heart was not steadfast, and whose spirit was not faithful to God. Those terrible horrible ugly innocent children…This is what your God is saying…
Well wait a second, whose fault is it then? Is it the unbeliever’s fault that they are blinded by Satan (the god of this world) or is it Satan’s fault? And the rest is basically for Catholic’s/Christians
So I fail to see your point here. You said at the very beginning that according to your Free Will and what you choose to do or not do, will ultimately determine where it is you go. I also like how you say if people make “wrong choices” they’re going to hell. So my question to you is what are choices that are made that can land someone in Hell? Where exactly is Hell? Who’s in Hell? It’d be nice if God was specific, we are, after all talking about our afterlife here. But maybe you know more than I do in regards to these questions.
Another thing I’ve noticed about your God is that He tends to be very coercive. Coercion by definition says “the practice of persuading someone to do something by using force or threats”. So by telling people that you either believe in God, and believe in Jesus Christ and accept him as your personal Lord and Savior or the only other place you can go to is Hell, is a form of coercion. That doesn’t sound like a god that’s very loving. It’s almost like your god favors Christians over those who are non-Christians. And because I can’t just flip a switch in my mind to all of a sudden believing in your God, I’m basically going to Hell right?
Mark 12:24 Jesus said to them, "Is not this the reason you are wrong, that you know neither the scriptures nor the power of God?
2 Peter 3: 1This is now, beloved, the second letter I am writing to you; in them I am trying to arouse your sincere intention by reminding you 2 that you should remember the words spoken in the past by the holy prophets, and the commandment of the Lord and Savior spoken through your apostles. 3 First of all you must understand this, that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and indulging their own lusts 4 and saying, “Where is the promise of his coming? For ever since our ancestors died,all things continue as they were from the beginning of creation!” 5 They deliberately ignore this fact, that by the word of God heavens existed long ago and an earth was formed out of water and by means of water, 6 through which the world of that time was deluged with water and perished. 7 But by the same word the present heavens and earth have been reserved for fire, being kept until the day of judgment and destruction of the godless.
8 But do not ignore this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like one day. 9 The Lord is not slow about his promise, as some think of slowness, but is patient with you,[b] not wanting any to perish, but all to come to repentance. 10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a loud noise, and the elements will be dissolved with fire, and the earth and everything that is done on it will be disclosed.
John 1:1-4 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things came into being through him, and without him not one thing came into being. What has come into being.
John 17:17 ; your word is truth.
James 1: 21 Therefore rid yourselves of all sordidness and rank growth of wickedness, and welcome with meekness the implanted word that has the power to save your souls.
Hebrews 4:12 Indeed, the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing until it divides soul from spirit, joints from marrow; it is able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart.
Revelation 19:13 He is clothed in a robe dipped in[a] blood, and his name is called The Word of God.
1 Peter 1:24 For"All flesh is like grass and all its glory like the flower of grass.The grass withers,and the flower falls,25 but the word of the Lord endures forever."That word is the good news that was announced to you.
Matthew 5:45 so that you may be children of your Father in heaven; for he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the righteous and on the unrighteous.
Romans 3:5 But if our injustice serves to confirm the justice of God, what should we say? That God is unjust to inflict wrath on us? (I speak in a human way.) 6 By no means! For then how could God judge the world? 7 But if through my falsehood God’s truthfulness abounds to his glory, why am I still being condemned as a sinner? 8 And why not say (as some people slander us by saying that we say), “Let us do evil so that good may come”? Their condemnation is deserved!
None Is Righteous
9 What then? Are we any better off?No, not at all; for we have already charged that all, both Jews and Greeks, are under the power of sin, 10 as it is written:"There is no one who is righteous, not even one;11 there is no one who has understanding, there is no one who seeks God.12 All have turned aside, together they have become worthless; there is no one who shows kindness,there is not even one."13 "Their throats are opened graves;they use their tongues to deceive."The venom of vipers is under their lips."14 "Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness.15 "Their feet are swift to shed blood;16 ruin and misery are in their paths,17 and the way of peace they have not known."18 "There is no fear of God before their eyes."19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it speaks to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced, and the whole world may be held accountable to God. 20 For “no human being will be justified in his sight” by deeds prescribed by the law, for through the law comes the knowledge of sin.
Salvation Is for All
Romans 10:5 Moses writes concerning the righteousness that comes from the law, that “the person who does these things will live by them.” 6 But the righteousness that comes from faith says, “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’” (that is, to bring Christ down) 7 “or ‘Who will descend into the abyss?’” (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead). 8 But what does it say?“The word is near you,on your lips and in your heart”
(that is, the word of faith that we proclaim); 9 because[b] if you confess with your lips that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For one believes with the heart and so is justified, and one confesses with the mouth and so is saved. 11 The scripture says, “No one who believes in him will be put to shame.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; the same Lord is Lord of all and is generous to all who call on him. 13 For, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”
14 But how are they to call on one in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in one of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone to proclaim him? 15 And how are they to proclaim him unless they are sent? As it is written, “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!” 16 But not all have obeyed the good news; for Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our message?” 17 So faith comes from what is heard, and what is heard comes through the word of Christ.18 But I ask, have they not heard? Indeed they have; for"Their voice has gone out to all the earth,and their words to the ends of the world.19 Again I ask, did Israel not understand? First Moses says,"I will make you jealous of those who are not a nation;with a foolish nation I will make you angry."20 Then Isaiah is so bold as to say,"I have been found by those who did not seek me; I have shown myself to those who did not ask for me."21 But of Israel he says, “All day long I have held out my hands to a disobedient and contrary people.”
Romans 10:12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; the same Lord is Lord of all and is generous to all who call on him.
Galatians 5:13 For you were called to freedom, brothers and sisters;only do not use your freedom as an opportunity for self-indulgence,but through love become slaves to one another. 14 For the whole law is summed up in a single commandment, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 15 If, however, you bite and devour one another, take care that you are not consumed by one another
The Works of the Flesh
16 Live by the Spirit, I say, and do not gratify the desires of the flesh. 17 For what the flesh desires is opposed to the Spirit, and what the Spirit desires is opposed to the flesh; for these are opposed to each other, to prevent you from doing what you want. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not subject to the law. 19 Now the works of the flesh are obvious: fornication, impurity, licentiousness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, anger, quarrels, dissensions, factions, 21 envy,drunkenness, carousing, and things like these. I am warning you, as I warned you before: those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
The Fruit of the Spirit
22 By contrast, the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, generosity, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, and self-control. There is no law against such things. 24 And those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 If we live by the Spirit, let us also be guided by the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, competing against one another, envying one another.
1 Chronicles 21:15 And God sent an angel to Jerusalem to destroy it; but when he was about to destroy it, the Lord took note and relented concerning the calamity; he said to the destroying angel, “Enough! Stay your hand.” The angel of the Lord was then standing by the threshing floor of Ornan the Jebusite.
Jeremiah 13:17 But if you will not listen,my soul will weep in secret for your pride;my eyes will weep bitterly and run down with tears, because the Lord’s flock has been taken captive.
Sirach 15:11 Do not say, “It was the Lord’s doing that I fell away”; for he does not do what he hates.12 Do not say, “It was he who led me astray” for he has no need of the sinful.13 The Lord hates all abominations; such things are not loved by those who fear him.14 It was he who created humankind in the beginning, and he left them in the power of their own free choice.15 If you choose, you can keep the commandments, and to act faithfully is a matter of your own choice.16 He has placed before you fire and water; stretch out your hand for whichever you choose.17 Before each person are life and death, and whichever one chooses will be given.18 For great is the wisdom of the Lord;he is mighty in power and sees everything;19 his eyes are on those who fear him, and he knows every human action.20 He has not commanded anyone to be wicked, and he has not given anyone permission to sin.
John 16:12 "I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. 13 When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own, but will speak whatever he hears, and he will declare to you the things that are to come. 14 He will glorify me, because he will take what is mine and declare it to you. 15 All that the Father has is mine. For this reason I said that he will take what is mine and declare it to you.
Ok thank you for repeating this. Jesus agrees with me in this sentence.
Ok again, this proves I’m correct. Because I do not believe in your God, and because I do not see Jesus the same way you see Jesus, as a person who died for all of our sins and took the punishment for all of our sins, and by recognizing that Jesus is not my Lord and Savior, the only place I will go to at the end of my life is Hell. And, this makes sense, cause at the beginning of chapter 3 of 2 Peter it says “…[obviously I’m paraphrasing here a bit but it states] you would do well to remember the words spoken in the past by the holy prophets and the commandment of the Lord and Savior spoken through your apostles…” Well, I don’t get involved in any of that anymore, so therefore instead of joining all the other Christians in Heaven, the only choice I have is Hell. It even says “…destruction of the godless…” well according to you Atheism is my God (which still at this very moment makes 0 sense cause I do worship a God), but because my God is not your god, therefore I will be sent to Hell, a place of eternal suffering and torment. This is coercion…you either do what it is I tell you to do, and accept me as your God and accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior, otherwise you’ll be a nice Spiritual brisket in Hell, being burned and tortured for an eternity. So, thank you for confirming my suspicions, and if I’m being coerced now to accept a God that I don’t believe in and disagree with on a number of things, why would I want to go to Heaven? How will I know God won’t coerce me to do something else? And my punishment for not believing in your God is eternal hellfire and damnation? So I’m basically being punished for my unbelief. Is this really how your God views unbelievers? Cause if so, your God has got a bit of growing up to do…
It says “…not wanting any to perish…” and yet the god in the Old Testament has no problem wiping out people left and right. Funny how in the New Testament they bring up that God wishes for no one to parish, but yet, when you read about God wiping out entire towns and at one point the entire world with the exception of everyone on an Ark, you never read that God feels sad or beside himself knowing that he just unalived entire groups of people, which include babies and children. You never read about any sign of regret. Awfully convenient that in the New Testament that, now we’re told that 
Ok finally, answers to my questions. So you acknowledge that God created everything. Ok…so tell me, why is it in this verse:
But God made everything, so why is it lying in this verse saying that God did not make death? I’m pretty sure it was God who made the entire process of death. Is God’s word lying to us on purpose?
I disagree but ok.
But again, I’ve already demonstrated I’m going to Hell. There’s nothing that can save me. I’m damned to begin with.
Funny, I never wish any ill on anyone, even if they are Christian. I try to do my best, but it’s not always perfect. I recognize I’m a flawed hueman being, but I’m still a person. I doubt what’s in my heart is what will save me from hellfire, but I guess in this scenario, it’s the thought that counts…
Sorry, again, I don’t believe in this blood sacrifice. I believe in Jesus but not that version of Jesus.
How is it good for someone who doesn’t believe in this good news? Cause I’m going to hell all because I simply just can’t believe in it. And again, there’s not some switch in my head that can tell me any different. I’m going to hell and that’s all there is to it. And there’s no amount of good news that can give me any semblence of hope.
But I’m not Christian so therefore I’m not a child of God.
I’m not perfect, but condemnation is a little much for someone who just simply doesn’t belief. In fact it’s cruelty really. It’s like having a Father who is so disappointed in their child that they torment them for the rest of their life. All because I couldn’t believe…and I remember how many times I honestly and earnestly wanted to believe. I tried so hard to believe, did the best that I could, but at the end of it all, I wound up alone. But this other God I worship believed in me even when I couldn’t believe in myself. So I will follow this one, cause the Catholic God abandoned me and left me for nothing.
Right…anything that comes out of my mouth and anything I do is nothing but absolutely sickening in the eyes of God. I couldn’t do anything right then, and that God to this day doesn’t think I can do anything right now. I’m an unbeliever and my destination is Hell, period. There’s no alternative, either I believe (which would be nothing but pretending to believe the entire time, which is way worse then actually believing in Him) or I suffer hellfire. Coercion again.
None of this applies to me.
Once again, just proving my point. I don’t believe in any of this, and since there’s no alternative to Hell except through belief and repentence, etc…, I’m just doomed for an eternity.
But if I don’t believe in any of it, then what’s the point?
I did call upon him. He must be selectively generous.
It wouldn’t matter though if I did any of this in this religion, I’m doomed. I’m doomed and I’m not part of God’s special group of people who get to live with one another in peace for an eternity. All because I don’t believe.
Ok so I think this answers my question on what kind of bad choices I would need to make to go to Hell. Weird how disbelief isn’t even on here, but yet all the other verses point to Hellfire for me. Is this God’s way of trying to cheer me up? Cause it doesn’t…
I do a lot of these, but doesn’t matter. Still going to Hell right?
I still don’t know where Hell is and who is in Hell. Does your God not tell you these things? That’s a shame, especially if you follow him and truly try to do the right things, like I tried to years ago. For a God who seems to want people to live forever, I would think he would answer any question you had about Hell. So, god doesn’t know where Hell is and god doesn’t know who is in Hell…interesting. Is that a loving way to be? If god wants people to not go to Hell, the least he can tell you is who’s in Hell so we can research these people and how they lived their lives so we can avoid going there. This just further solidifies, at least for me, that leaving this religion, while it was an extremely hard thing to do, was the right decision. I don’t do vague.
Do you know yourself?,do you know how many hairs are their on your head?, exactly! Or how many are the number of Stars in the sky? ,or the number of galaxies,in the universe ,or creatures on the earth ,man is still discovering new species of insects animals or microbes each day ,and it will be so till the end of the world ,
please answer these questions first?
You don’t know the things here on Earth,and you what to know the spiritual realities so profound,of heaven and it’s eternity,hell and it’s location location ,Trinity , God’s nature etc with all the sins you and I have ,who is going to reveal to us, for that we need to be holy ,avoid at least mortal sins ,then perhaps in God’s time and if he wants he may show Mercy he will reveal to us ,you want to know divide mysteries?. Very funniest,read the life of saints it’s better.
Why don’t you repent of all your sins ,make a general confession ,to a genuine Catholic priest, then, pray and ask God mercy and light seek him with all your heart ,read the catechism of the catholic church ,the life of saints ,many have visited hell with the grace of God or with their guardian angel, glimpse of heaven,eg st Maria Faustina,st Therese of Avila,many more .
God made everything thing for the good of man Genesis 1:1-15 ,Ecclesiastes 7:29 See, this alone I found, that God made human beings straightforward, but they have devised many schemes.
Isaiah 55:8-9 For my thoughts are not your thoughts,nor are your ways my ways, says the Lord.
9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth,so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts.
Pax