This is the passage that is an infallible doctrine of the Catholic Church condemning abortion…

“Given such unanimity in the doctrinal and disciplinary tradition of the Church, Paul VI was able to declare that this tradition is unchanged and unchangeable. 72 Therefore, by the authority which Christ conferred upon Peter and his Successors, in communion with the Bishops-who on various occasions have condemned abortion and who in the aforementioned consultation, albeit dispersed throughout the world, have shown unanimous agreement concerning this doctrine-I declare that direct abortion, that is, abortion willed as an end or as a means, always constitutes a grave moral disorder, since it is the deliberate killing of an innocent human being. This doctrine is based upon the natural law and upon the written Word of God, is transmitted by the Church’s Tradition and taught by the ordinary and universal Magisterium. 73

No circumstance, no purpose, no law whatsoever can ever make licit an act which is intrinsically illicit, since it is contrary to the Law of God which is written in every human heart, knowable by reason itself, and proclaimed by the Church.”

Evangelium Vitae (The Gospel of Life), 62, 1995

What do you know about Numbers 5:21-28? Some feminist on the socials pointed out this verse and said, “see abortion is in the Bible.”

Thoughts?

Peace to all,

Peace always,
.

Here is an article that seems to cover the verses more in depth than I ever could. It is Numbers 5 and Abortion: Does the Old Testament Law Condone Abortion? | Answers in Genesis

Thanks

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Peace to all,

Peace always,
Stephen

Thanks! I found a couple good videos from both Trent Horn and your arch-nemeses Jimmy Akin on the topic as well. Both said slightly different things from one another, but when you put both of their answers together it makes sense to me.

It was believed that the woman, if she did indeed cheat on her husband, would be rendered unfertile as a curse, but if she had not, and was falsely accused, then she would be blessed by fertility.

The Bible translations that use the term “miscarriage” are poorly translated. Plus it is unclear if a child was even conceived, let alone if there was in fact infidelity committed.

And infertility makes more sense, because it is a curse, not an immediate punishment. And even if it were an abortion as a punishment (which doesn’t make sense), it would not glorify nor put a stamp-of-approval for feminists, many of whom don’t even believe the Bible is the inspired Word of God, to justify consuming a pill that will end the life of an innocent, unborn human being and possibly harm the mother (both physically and psychologically).

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Thank YOU!
Well done good and faithful servant!

Murder is murder. There is no justification. The best abortion is to remain chaste. Sex is not meant as a form of social entertainment. Those who have sex for entertainment are on the level of cats and dogs, wherein the only intention is gratification of the senses. Animal life. This is why human beings have a marriage ceremony, for man and woman to combine with a vow to live together as God’s servants in one house. Actually, the house is the temple of God…because God is the proprietor of every house. And we, who live in the house, are God’s servants. The idea or demeanor of the heart that everything is for "my pleasure…this is the the demonic mentality. We are here for learning how to live for God’s pleasure. But today, even in the so-called Christian churches, people think of God as the big Amazon.com, who is there as an order supplier for granting our wishes. It is a pious nature that recognizes God as the source of all that exists…but it is not the teachings of Jesus that we turn to God for supplying our health, wealth, etc. No. Jesus teaches in two ways. One is by precept. The other way is by his personal example. Therefore Jesus, who has the ability to avoid crucifixion, even if the whole world wanted this, said, “Not my will, but Thy will be done.” This means, “Whatever is pleasing to You, my Lord, this is my only desire.” This is called pure devotion. Asking God for other things is also devotion. But not pure. It is worship for personal gain. This is called motivated devotion. This doing business with God: “I will worship You, if You fulfill all my desires.” Killing children is murder, and the law of the land should rule in this way. Before so-called modern science became the religion of the people, the question of abortion or not abortion was not so much present. But today, people consider themselves to be “free”, liberated from religious “superstition”. Actually, in this way they are free, to go to hell. But the problem is that they have no role models to follow. People are followers by nature. And the so-called leaders of nations simply tell the people what they think the people want to hear…so that they can go on exploiting them.

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Hello Chris! I feel that you should be more patient with StephenAndrew. He is sincere. I agree that his mode of expression is not easy to understand. It is different from what we are accustomed to. But he glorifies Jesus. He glorifies the church. He speaks on the highest level in different ways. He is a member of your church. He is loved by Jesus. Let us just try to be grateful that he is one of our family, rather than an atheist or a demon. We do not know of Stephen’s relationship with Jesus. He could be miles ahead of us. Let us be grateful and respectful. I am not perfect. But your words are harsh…so I felt to say something. I pay my respects to you, Chris93.

Peter 1,

Thank you for 2 very good letters to me. Regarding Stephen, I took your admonition very seriously. I looked up my 5 replies to him below:

Hi Stephen, I wanted to reply to and question you ONMIlogic that Mary is one of the Trinity. Right off the bat your theory is a heresy against the Catholic Church which has defined the Trinity as Father, Son and Holy Spirit. I am at a loss why you chose Mary to be divine when the Bible never says …

I haven’t replied to you because your idea of the Trinity is a heresy against the Catholic Church. I had hoped you would grow out of it but you have not. I sincerely hope that you will repent of your heresy.

I beg you to stop preaching this heresy.

Your theology is incorrect and is a heresy. Please stop for the sake of God.

You interfere with the posts of others with nonsense replies. Please stay away from anything that I post. You are a disrupter and a bully.

My initial objection was that his theory is a heresy against the Catholic Church by saying that Mary is part of the Blessed Trinity. When he did not retract his heresy, I started to resist his intrusive replies to my every post with his heresy as if he was forcing his heresy on me despite my request to stop bullying.

Nonetheless, I respect your admonition to me very much, and I assure you I have taken it to heart. It won’t happen again, that is for the moderator to decide. Thank you.

But today, people consider themselves to be “free”, liberated from religious “superstition”. Actually, in this way they are free, to go to hell. But the problem is that they have no role models to follow. People are followers by nature. And the so-called leaders of nations simply tell the people what they think the people want to hear…so that they can go on exploiting them.

I thought these sentences were very true and on target. “Free from religion” is commonplace these days and extremely dangerous as you noted. No role models and followers by nature are descriptive of people I call “shallow” meaning no depth of religion, ethics, fairness, the common good, equity, goodness, sympathy and so forth. Just between me and you I believe that the very active, very vocal pro-aborts and their monetary contributors are psychopathic.

Thanks for the conversation. Maybe we can trade opinions again.

HI Chris 93! Were you born in '93?

RE: “Free from religion” is commonplace these days and extremely dangerous as you noted. No role models and followers by nature are descriptive of people I call “shallow” meaning no depth of religion, ethics, fairness, the common good, equity, goodness, sympathy and so forth. Just between me and you I believe that the very active, very vocal pro-aborts and their monetary contributors are psychopathic.

RE: .“Free from religion” is commonplace these days and extremely dangerous". I feel that the problem lies in the fact that so many people have been disappointed by the church, in various ways. Therefore there is lot of talk about hypocrisy. I have seen documentaries in which there are men’s groups in which the men who gather together, share their experiences of being sexually molested by priests in the church. Some of them turned to their parents for protection, but they were sent back into the hands of these same priests. Because. they were just little boys when these things happened, and they were told that these men represented God…it really left a profound emotional scar, and questions about religion with these people. Then there is the educational system which advises the public that science has all the answers and that religion is for primitive people. Then we have the media filled with so much nonsense, vidoes, etc. All these factors pollute the mind of the public, and it is all sanctioned by the governments of the world.

RE: … followers by nature are descriptive of people I call “shallow” meaning no depth of religion, ethics, fairness, the common good, equity, goodness, sympathy and so forth. But it is a sociological fact that most people are followers. This is why good leadership is required. If the leaders of nations really love and take care of their citizens, the people feel it, and want to be “part of the family”, and participate socially, in a healthy way. But when the leaders utilize their positions simply to maintain the status quo between the rich and the poor, and maintain low income for the masses…the result is that the man in the street feels that “It’s every man for himself. Nobody cares about me. These men in politics are taking care of themselves. They make promises that they don’t keep. They are “ripping us off”. So I am going to get a piece of the action.” And therefore the nation is filled with scams, on the web, on the phones. It is all because the people at the top are dishonest. Even the president of the U.S. has some 35 felony counts against him.

As far as ethics goes, Jesus said, “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.” This is not a sentiment. It is also a warning. No one gets away with anything. This is God’s law…what scripture calls “sewing and reaping.” But people are simply not educated to understand these things. If a man knew that we cannot get away with anything…he would not try to be dishonest.

I am not in a position to admonish you or anyone else, Chris. I was just feeling some sympathy for Stephen. Yes, he is eccentric, and probably experiences rejection in different ways in different sectors. But he wants to be part of our little group. And yes, Mother Mary, I can only imagine that she is specially chosen by God to have Jesus within her womb. She must be a very special spiritual being. In a sense, the concept of God is somewhat broad in Catholicism, to include the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. Surely Mary is part of the family. In a broader sense God includes God and His family of spiritual associates in the spiritual realm, some of whom come to our planet to give us teachings. I know that we must accept the dogma as it is given to us by higher authority in the church, but the fact that Stephen holds Mother Mary in great esteem is not a bad thing. I know that Catholics pray to Mother Mary on their rosary beads. In any case, I am finding that the kinder I am to others, the more my heart feels better. I am slow in following my own advice…but I am trying to move forward.

Best wishes, Peter

Including Mary in the Trinity is obviously heresy without a doubt and is a teaching contrary to the Catholic Church. An affinity to Mary does not excuse heresy. I rightly tried to correct him which is an act of love on my part in order to correct him. He was intrusive and a bully no doubt.
Hebrews 12:2 says, "Let us fix our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of our faith

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I know this is off topic but I need help. If there is any clergy in the site i’d like to hear their opinion on this.
scenario:

Someone approaches communion in sin with enough knowledge and then on top of that mistreats the host with contempt, disregard and malice (dolus) while consuming it. The subject is aware enough that such actions can incurr in penalties in church law.

Could this person incurr in excommunication (automatic)?

Abortion - Catechism of the Catholic Church

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2270 Human life must be respected and protected absolutely from the moment of conception. From the first moment of his existence, a human being must be recognized as having the rights of a person - among which is the inviolable right of every innocent being to life. 72

Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you. 73

My frame was not hidden from you, when I was being made in secret, intricately wrought in the depths of the earth. 74

2271 Since the first century the Church has affirmed the moral evil of every procured abortion. This teaching has not changed and remains unchangeable. Direct abortion, that is to say, abortion willed either as an end or a means, is gravely contrary to the moral law:

You shall not kill the embryo by abortion and shall not cause the newborn to perish. 75

God, the Lord of life, has entrusted to men the noble mission of safeguarding life, and men must carry it out in a manner worthy of themselves. Life must be protected with the utmost care from the moment of conception: abortion and infanticide are abominable crimes. 76

2272 Formal cooperation in an abortion constitutes a grave offense. The Church attaches the canonical penalty of excommunication to this crime against human life. “A person who procures a completed abortion incurs excommunication latae sententiae ,” 77 “by the very commission of the offense,” 78 and subject to the conditions provided by Canon Law. 79 The Church does not thereby intend to restrict the scope of mercy. Rather, she makes clear the gravity of the crime committed, the irreparable harm done to the innocent who is put to death, as well as to the parents and the whole of society.

2273 The inalienable right to life of every innocent human individual is a constitutive element of a civil society and its legislation :

“The inalienable rights of the person must be recognized and respected by civil society and the political authority. These human rights depend neither on single individuals nor on parents; nor do they represent a concession made by society and the state; they belong to human nature and are inherent in the person by virtue of the creative act from which the person took his origin. Among such fundamental rights one should mention in this regard every human being’s right to life and physical integrity from the moment of conception until death.” 80

“The moment a positive law deprives a category of human beings of the protection which civil legislation ought to accord them, the state is denying the equality of all before the law. When the state does not place its power at the service of the rights of each citizen, and in particular of the more vulnerable, the very foundations of a state based on law are undermined. . . . As a consequence of the respect and protection which must be ensured for the unborn child from the moment of conception, the law must provide appropriate penal sanctions for every deliberate violation of the child’s rights.” 81

2274 Since it must be treated from conception as a person, the embryo must be defended in its integrity, cared for, and healed, as far as possible, like any other human being.

catechist4

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Hi and thank you for posting these wonderful verses about abortion. We need more like this.Below I have reproduced paragraph #62 of the gospel of Life by Pope John 2 which is an infallible condemnation of abortion with the same authority as all the Marian dogmas and the founding of the Catholic Church by Christ. Here goes…

Given such unanimity in the doctrinal and disciplinary tradition of the Church, Paul VI was able to declare that this tradition is unchanged and unchangeable. 72 Therefore, by the authority which Christ conferred upon Peter and his Successors, in communion with the Bishops-who on various occasions have condemned abortion and who in the aforementioned consultation, albeit dispersed throughout the world, have shown unanimous agreement concerning this doctrine-I declare that direct abortion, that is, abortion willed as an end or as a means, always constitutes a grave moral disorder, since it is the deliberate killing of an innocent human being. This doctrine is based upon the natural law and upon the written Word of God, is transmitted by the Church’s Tradition and taught by the ordinary and universal Magisterium. 73

No circumstance, no purpose, no law whatsoever can ever make licit an act which is intrinsically illicit, since it is contrary to the Law of God which is written in every human heart, knowable by reason itself, and proclaimed by the Church.

“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you.” To me this means that the spirit soul is the real person, and we only occupy the material body for a short time, while we are on earth. It is our vehicle, and “I am not this body. I am an eternal soul.” God knew us before the body was formed. and we were consecrated before the temporary body was formed. the spirit soul is eternal. the material body is our vehicle while the soul is in the material dimension. The material body requires the presence of the spirit, without which it returns to the earth (ashes to ashes, dust to dust). The spirit soul is eternal and lives very well without being encased in a material form, which is a source of unlimited problems. And yes, murder is murder, whether of an adult or a newly conceived baby in the womb.

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