Biblical figures we know are in Hell

Apologetics
1

Cain

“Do not be like Cain, who belonged to the evil one and murdered his brother. And why did he murder him? Because his own actions were evil and his brother’s were righteous.” 1 John 3:12.

PS: Saint Alphonsus said that he knew that the mark God put on Cain was that God shriveled his murderous arms like the shriveled limbs of a dead tree.

King Manasseh

**3 “**Surely these things happened to Judah according to the Lord’s command, in order to remove them from his presence because of the sins of Manasseh and all he had done, 4 including the shedding of innocent blood. For he had filled Jerusalem with innocent blood, and the Lord was not willing to forgive.” 2 Kings 24.

PS: Saint Alphonsus and Cornelius a Lapide both got this wrong by incorrectly saying King Manasseh was forgiven by God. Manasseh was not buried with the previous kings, he was buried in his backyard like a common criminal.

Herod (The one eaten by worms)

20 Now Herod was angry with the people of Tyre and Sidon, and they came to him with one accord, and having persuaded Blastus, the king’s chamberlain,[a] they asked for peace, because their country depended on the king’s country for food. 21 On an appointed day Herod put on his royal robes, took his seat upon the throne, and delivered an oration to them. 22 And the people were shouting, “The voice of a god, and not of a man!” 23 Immediately an angel of the Lord struck him down, because he did not give God the glory, and he was eaten by worms and breathed his last. Acts 12:20-23

Pharaoh

The Israelites were protected by a pillar of fire and a pillar of smoke and an angel of the Lord but Pharaoh persisted in attempted genocide and was drowned along with every single one of his solders.

Let me know if you can think of any others i.e… Judas, Goliath, Sisera…

2

That’s some great documentation. I’m curious though, why you put it into the Apologetics category. How would you use this as evidence for the truth of Christianity?

3

I kind of put anything Biblical related that can be debated under the Apologetics category. I think this qualifies : )

1 Like
4

I believe we can speculate all we want and we will know the truth when we all enter into the Kingdom of God… pray for the salavation of all souls today.

5

This is not speculation, it is Biblically based.

Your comment “pray for the salvation of all souls today’ contradicts the bible because of Psalm 141:5…” For still my prayer is against the deeds of the wicked.

6

Bishop Fulton Sheen said there will be three surprises when we get to Heaven. 1. Who is there that we never thought would be. 2. Who is not there that we thought surely would be. 3. That we ourselves are there : )

1 Like
7

We are not living in the Garden of Eden. Sounds more like we are in hell; so much sinfulness. Consider the history of planet earth (as far as our records show). Imperialism, exploitation of one nation upon another; slave markets, etc., etc. It’s a place where God has to send His son, because as a planetary population, we are beside ourselves with iniquity. And how did we receive him (aside from the 12 who were repeatedly plagued with doubts)? Sounds more like we are in a reform school; and Jesus comes to us for our reorientation.

Then there’s the church’s threat of eternal damnation. Doesn’t sound like the love of God that we are told to open our hearts to. Sounds more like a political church-state maneuver for keeping everyone “in line”. If heaven is filled with the heavenly hosts, the angels live where there is no disease, no death…why has God forced us to be born in the world of brith and death…with so much atheism, and self-centered selfishness in our hearts? And then made it into a great struggle to qualify for entering “the Kingdom of God”? Makes more sense to think, that the Garden of Eden is actually the spiritual realm where God resides with His unlimited family of heavenly hosts, and that we are the fallen souls who have been placed here for a course of reformation. And if we don’t get the grade right in one lifetime, we get another shot at it, again and again, reaping the fruits of sins, one lifetime born crippled, another as Prince Harry, etc. I know that all of this talk is considered to be heresy, and that in other times I would be sought out to be burnt alive at the stake. But I also know that Jesus healed the sick, gave vision to the blind, had love for everyone. I also know that one who has these divine powers, who can make the wind stop blowing, walk on the waters…no one can hurt him…nor does he feel the pains of this world, because he is in this world, but not of this world. Yes, Jesus was crucified. But not primarily to suffer, but to show us by his example that we are eternal souls, and that there is no such thing as death…only the body returns to the earth. It is not that we have souls. The truth is that we ARE souls. But for the present we are locked inside a material form that is filled a doctors book of diseases. Why would God afflict us in this way? for one reason: to humble our false pride, to bring us to our knees, to make us look for answers…so that when His son comes to us…we are ready to hear His message. Otherwise, I am grateful to all of you who want to walk the walk of Christ.

8

Have you ever heard the joke about Hell? It is a bit vulgar, so I will summarize it.

Basically the Devil asks a man living a sinful lifestyle, “Do you like drinking alcohol and getting drunk?”

The mans says, “Yeah I do!”

The Devil says, “You’re going to love Monday nights in Hell!”

Then Satan asks, “What about gettin’ high?”

"The many says, “Getting high is great!”

And the Evil One replies, “Well then, you’re gonna love Tuesday nights in Hell”

The joke continues until it gets to Sodomý and the man says, “No, I would not enjoy that one bit. In fact that sounds like Hell.”

In which the Devil replies, “Ooof! You are going to hate Fridays!” :joy:

I’m sure I am butchering it, but it has been about twenty years since I had heard this joke on The Trivisonno Show.

9

Hi Cade! Why is there a need to think that Satin is outside of us? As I understand it, we have two ways to go. Either we are abiding in God and His son, or we are expressing an attitude of independence. My understanding is: not that we have a soul…but that we are an eternal soul, inside a temporary material body. If we cleave to our relationship with superior spiritual shelter, we become governed by the dictates of spirit. If we proceed on our own, the mundane impulses prevail (mammon). Jesus says, “the yoke that I wear, check it out…it’s really nice and light.” In this sense we are always subordinate, servant…servant of God…or servant of mammon. As servant of Mammon, we become forced to do the Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday trip you are speaking about. Never independent.

10

It can be both/and. We can be possessed by Satan, meaning, his spirit of darkness, corruption, and disorder is in us and influencing us and Satan is “prowling about the world, seeking the ruin of souls.” But, ultimately it is we who give into his ways and allow ourselves to be influenced by him, be influenced by ourselves, be influenced by others who might be corrupted by any of these, or to allow ourselves to be inspired by the Holy Spirit.

11

I like that! Whether we are seduced or not is our responsibility! But how to resist? Because that “old devil” is an expert con-man. There is only one way to be protected. And that is to be “fixed-up” begging for the living association of the savior, keeping his presence alive in our hearts. Then the old rascal can’t touch us. This means that being an official member of a church won’t cut it, isn’t enough. We need a living relationship with the one who has come to save us.

1 Like
12

What you have said here, reminded me of this clip I stumbled upon last Sunday:

13

Interesting.

As you may already know, I’m not a Catholic person. I have no doubts that Jesus is sent to earth by God, our eternal Father. But I have conviction that God has more good Sons than we can imagine. If Jesus is the only Son, what is the fate of the millions of souls who appeared on earth before the advent of Jesus? Surely God has other messengers that He sends, to put us on the right path.

Other scriptures tell us that you and I are also fallen angels. And that’s why we have taken our birth in the material dimension, where there is so much corruption, dishonesty, exploitation, sickness, racism, slavery, natural disasters, old age, disease and death. As I think Catholics believe, the soul is eternal and never dies. But the material body dies. The soul doesn’t require a material form; but the material form requires a soul…otherwise it begins to decompose. At the same time the material form is the source of endless suffering. It is an affliction imposed upon the eternal spirit soul.

Online, I have just now read that the Bible says that there are “myriads upon myriads” or “thousands upon thousands” of heavenly hosts, angels, in the spiritual world with God. They don’t have material forms… They have spiritual forms. As I know you will agree, God loves us more than we can imagine. Therefore, why would He cause us, His eternal children, to take birth in the material world, where there is so much dissension, wars, plagues, earthquakes, volcanoes, tidal waves, forest fires, slavery, endless imperialism of the strong over the weak, etc.?

If I remember correctly, Jesus tells us not to look for our fulfillment in the material realm. So why are we here? There are scriptures that explain that we are fallen angels, and that our hearts are filled with self-centered desires. And that messengers, like Jesus are sent to us, to guide us back to our real home. When we have evil, self-centered desires, and exploitive ambitions, these books say, it’s not because of an outside devil…but rather, it’s our own fallen nature. And Jesus is telling us that instead of trying to be God (each as much as we can), we should understand that our real nature is to be loving servants of God.

The idea is that we are here, in the material realm, for our rehab. The material world is a spiritual reform school. Our suffering here is to create humility in us, so that we can begin to hear the message from God’s messengers, when they come to us. But how do we receive them? As a Catholic, you know the answer. The people of that time, they considered Jesus to be a trouble-maker, and decided to eliminate him. He was a disturbance to the status quo. This is the nature of life in the material world. Those who are willing to repent, and open their hearts to God and His Son are few and far between. If my words are a disturbance to you, please forgive me, and continue with your faith.

14

The “others” are everyone here on this planet. In different scriptures, the earth is described as a middle level planet in the material creation. It is described that there are higher material realms than earth, and lower realms for those who are more sinful. But everyone here in the material realm is a a fallen angel, whose body will be “eaten by worms”. The material realm is a spiritual reform school. There are hard core criminals that will not repent. They will go down lower. And there are pious souls who will go higher. And there are the few who will open their heart to God’s messengers, like Jesus, and become qualified to return back to our original home…the spiritual world…where there is no old age, no disease, and no death. Only eternal life with loving service to our eternal Lord.

15

Peace to all,

True, we have to see all mankind as Sons and Daughters of God.

Mary’s divine nature is Flesh Immortality becoming the New Eve transformed in all mankind and Jesus’ divine nature is Holy Spirit Incorruption in the New Adam becoming The Christ in all mankind becoming again glorified and transfigured One Holy Spirit Family One God in being through both natures, OMNILogically.

We become once each from two natures, flesh immortalization and Holy Spirit Incorruption becoming again once in both natures, infallible and undefiled in One Holy Spirit Family One God in being, OMNILogically.

Jesus death becomes the New Living Sacrifice that transforms becoming flesh immortality from the Immaculate New Eve for the Virgin Birth of Jesus in the Christ through Holy Spirit Incorruption becoming again for all in One Holy Spirit Family One God in being.

Peace always.
Stephen

16

Scripture tells us of two places where souls went prior to Jesus’ death: “Abraham’s Bosom,” where righteous souls went to be with God before Christ’s resurrection. Then there was “the land of the abode” where unrighteous went after death. In the Creed, we proclaim that Christ descended into Hell, referring to the abode of the dead, to preach to the spirits there (1 Peter 3:19-20).

Mel Gibson’s sequel to The Passion of The Christ will likely depict this. I don’t know how he is going to pull this off. He is also going to depict the fall of the angels. How do you do this without making it look cheesy?

This is a great question! It was not His plan for human beings to live in a fallen world. He gifted us free-will to choose His plan or to choose a different plan. We chose to do it a different way and thus sin entered the world. God gave us many chances to return back to Him, but we were not getting it. And so He sent His Son to show us “the way, the truth, and the life” (John 14:6).

Without free-will, could we say that God truly loves us? What is love if it is merely a programming? We would simply be robots and where is the love in that? Love is both spirit and action. Robots can do actions, but lack a spirit.

Likewise, we say that animals have a limited soul. A pet can be trained to do actions and some may even be capable of expressing love in a limited way (they may feel sorrow at the loss of their offspring, or defend their loyal master (but, is this bred into them or is it free-will?)

The Baltimore Catechism simply answered this question like this, “God made us to know, love, and serve Him in this world, and to be happy with Him forever in the next.”

But, why didn’t God just create us as purely spirit? I have heard is said creating us both body and spirit is not a design flaw or a limitation, but rather an enhancement that allows us a deeper connection with God through two senses instead of one.

Well said : )

17

Hi Cade! I am impressed with your answers. They are intelligent. They are based on scripture. And some are put forward by respectable Christian/Catholic organizations. You are giving me thoughtful answers. Thank you. Sincerely,

The idea that Jesus descends into hell, for preaching to the spirits imprisoned there is very enlivening to me. This suggests (to me) that those who are in hell who accept His teachings can be spiritually uplifted and perhaps saved, even liberated from eternal suffering if they surrender their hearts to Jesus. What do Catholic teachings say about this? (I am assuming that you are representing the Catholic faith when conversing with me.)

I have not seen Mel Gibson’s The Passion. I could not bear to watch what I think the movie presents. I do understand that an intimate associate of God, like Jesus, who is sent to us, has the love of God in his heart, and loves us as God would love us. I also believe that he is willing to take upon himself responsibility for all of our sins. But I do not believe that God our eternal Father would allow His dearmost sun to suffer in this way. In other words, I believe that the crucifixion took place, but that Jesus does not experience it as one of us would. Recall the prayer of Jesus when being crucified: “Forgive them Lord, for they know not what they are doing.” It is inconceivable to me how he could be so calmly compassionate if he were in a state of suffering similar to how we would experience if we were being crucified. Not only would God not allow Jesus to suffer in this way, but it is explained and demonstrated by the lives of the saints in various traditions, that they are indifferent to the pains and pleasures of the the flesh because their hearts are filled with a spiritual bliss or ecstasy that our minds cannot fathom. I envision Jesus in this way. He could perform any miracle he wished to. He could walk on water, heal the sick, stop the tempest wind from blowing by his command. It is not given to us to understand his inner experience. But he is portrayed as having suffered terribly, almost inconceivably. And still he is crucified in every Christian church. If Jesus was on my altar, I would present him as healing the sick, giving a sermon, etc. … not hanging on a cross with metal spikes through his holy hands and feet. We want to embrace Jesus, try to serve him in some way, offer him a sitting place, bring him food, bring him water, wash his feet, and hear him speak. Imagine what a child feels, a five or six year old child, what he feels, when he hears that because of him, because he is bad, sinful, that Jesus had to suffer in that way, so that he could be saved. I don’t think that Jesus would desire that we be educated in that way. His message is positive, beautiful and strong, even if this message of the church is removed. Jesus loves the children. He doesn’t want them to feel guilt. He says, “Suffer little children to come unto me.” He wants them to feel his love…not to watch “The Passion” film. This is something that I feel strongly about.

The understanding presented by the Vedic scriptures, is that the soul of the animal is not different from the soul of a man. We can think of this material body as a combination of hardware and software. The mind is our software. It is only in the human form that the software can entertain spiritual concepts. The spiritual energy of the creature is the same; but his software is different. I cannot bring myself to eat an animal. I could not look a creature in the eye and cut his throat, just so that I could enjoy the taste of his flesh. I have not eaten an animal, chicken, or fish for the last 55 years. I have read mixed conclusions online, some saying that the essenes who were strict vegetarians were followers of Jesus.

18

The fact that Christ descended into “the abode” to preach to the spirits there strikes me as significant. This means that just as we have a material body, the spirit in hell has a spiritual body, that can hear and understand scriptural concepts. The ancient scriptures that I study state that the spiritual body is the real person. The spiritual body is eternal, indestructible. The material body is an “ashes to ashes, dust to dust” body that decomposes or composts. It is not the real person. It only demonstrates symptoms of life when the spirit is inside it. Just like a shirt and pants can run around when a person is inside them. The shirt and pants look alive as long as the person is inside. Similarly the material body looks alive as long as the spirit is inside. The conclusion is that the material form is not the real person. The real person is the spirit soul. People say “I have a soul.” To speak like this means that they think they are the material body. The truth is, I do not have a soul; I am a soul. And the first understanding of spiritual life is that we are not these material forms. We are not these bodies. We are eternal spirits, just as God is an eternal spiritual being who loves us. And in our eternal spiritual forms, we can have eternal relationships of loving exchange with God. The Angels and heavenly hosts do not have material forms. They have spiritual forms. The material body is the source of all suffering. The more we try to enjoy this material body, the more we suffer. Real enjoyment is in the establishment of a living relationship with God and His son. When this relationship is awakened in one’s heart, all the desires of the flesh depart. Such a person is not being austere. They have found their fulfillment on the spiritual platform. Everyone else, even though they may call themselves Catholics, or Christians, or Muslims, or Jews, they are simply worshipers of Mammon because they are trying to enjoy the flesh. One who has a living relationship with Jesus no longer seeks to gratify his material senses. All of his satisfaction is within his heart. Therefore, being a member of a church is nice, but this is not the essence of the teachings of Jesus.

19

Hi Peter1,
I was with you until the last sentence. the Catholic Church is the Church Christ founded and is therefore necessary to belong to it.

Thanks,
Chris

20

I don’t feel confident in my heart, that the Church of today really represents Jesus and what he wished to share with the people of planet earth.
Just consider for example, the estimation of 200,000 people in France, Spain and Italy that were burned alive by the Catholic church during the “Inquisition”. Does the church of today make any apologies for this kind of behavior?

Also, it is very well known that the Cahtolic church protects the priests that are engaged in child sexual abuse. Instead of putting these people in prisons, the church does not restrict their pedophile eactivities. You can check this out at https://www.rothsteinlaw.com/news_detail/69. But that is a tiny report that is not representative of the widespread sexual abuse that is supported by the church. Supported, not by encouraging it, but by not stopping it. In fact by not stopping it, the church is facilitating it. I have seen documentaries in which outraged victims come together for group therapy and talk about how they were sexually abused by Catholic priests when they were children, how their parents did not protect them, etc.

Similarly, personalities like the Pope and the Bishops do not live lives that are examples of the life of Jesus. Rather, they live in the greatest level of material luxury. A real representative of the church will be able to demonstrate a very high degree of renunciation of worldly comforts, not because he is austere, but because a person with actual spiritual qualification will automatically live among the people and be supported by going door to door for the purpose of preaching, just as Saint Franicis did.

I do not believe that the Catholic Church is the church that Jesus founded. Jesus did not start a church. The church was started after his departure. He said, “consider the lilies of the field…”. In other words Jesus was telling his disciples that a spiritually elevated person will not be dependent on the ways of the world, but will trust in God for all of his needs. We can’t live that way. But a person who claims to represent Jesus should be able to live that way. He often showed extreme disgust with the institutionalized Judaic organization. Instead, he walked and talked and preached among the people . In my opinion, the only reason the priests, bishops and pope don’t live in this way, as exemplified by Jesus, is simply because they are not spiritually elevated enough to live in this way. . Jesus told the wealthy pious man to give his accumulated possessions to the poor and follow him. But the man could not do it. There is one passage in which Jesus says that one can say they did this, and this and this in the name of Jesus, and Jesus says, “I never knew you.” We don’t get spiritual leaders by the process of receiving the votes of other less qualified men. We get people like Trump.

I do not wish to try to shake your faith in Jesus as your savior. I respect this very much. But I feel that our relationship with Jesus is not dependent on our relationship with the organized church. Let us simply try our best to live our lives according to the teachings of Jesus as presented in the Bible.