Ha-Ha! 
That is funny! 
What is your number (your intelligence quotient number that is)?? And where did you have this test done? You still have not answered.
I got my IQ number out of a Cracker Jack box ; )
While we’re on the subject of crackers, do you believe in the racist bell-curve theory? Because I do not.
Historically these were some of the classification levels lower on the IQ scale:
- Idiot: An IQ of 0–25, considered the most severe level.
- Imbecile: An IQ of 26–50, the intermediate level.
- Moron: An IQ of 51–70, the highest-functioning level of what was then classified as low IQ.
I’ve been called all three of these, so where I exactly fall is bit cloudy.
It’s been a long time since I posted here but I feel I must post an update. I recently had a fertility test and my vasectomy was a success. My marital life has returned to normal. My relationship with my wife is again happy. I no longer have to worry about her being killed by another pregnancy. We now attend a large evangelical church in northern Illinois (Willow Creek Community church). The most important take away for me from this entire thing is that Catholic “teaching” on the subject of birth control is complete and utter nonsense. After doing some research on this subject I was surprised to learn that over 90% of american catholic women have, at one time or another, practiced artificial birth control. One can only wonder how long it will take the church to wake up and accept the truth.
First, I am glad that you and your Wife are doing well.
Interesting choice of words. If 99.999999999999999999% of Christians believed something to be morally acceptable, it would not make it, therefore, good nor true.
I’m glad you are still going to a Church at least, even if it is one that tells you what you want to hear : ) I used to attend a non-Denominational Church (Crossroads Community Church), but as my walk with Christ matured, I began to find the message to be fluffy. I Pray that God will lead you to a deeper relationship with Jesus and that you will follow Him and all of His ways. He has so much more to offer you than coffee, donuts, praise-rock, lighting effects, and a stage built for a band and the Pastor. But, your journey is yours to take.
Thanks for the update, even if it was just to spike on the Catholic Christian Faith ; )
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Thank you for your thoughtful response.
It sounds to me as if you simply handpicked a subject on faith and morality and used it as a vehicle for argument on a Catholic website.
God’s Church is not a product for choice in a supermarket. Protestant means going against the faith of the Church, not being more in align with it.
If the subject is true and this is what you are your wife are going through then two points become apparent:
- That you are wishing to be more seriously involved with God and His Church, known by the very fact that you asked the question.
- You are your wife are in a juncture where you can choose to make that happen and right in the beating heart of your life - your marriage.
My answer: If you are not prepared to listen to advice on this forum from practicing Catholics then make an appointment to visit a Catholic priest and discuss your entire situation with him.
“I think for myself not to come up with my own teaching but to make the Church’s teaching my own,” wrote Richard John Neuhaus (a Lutheran pastor who became a Catholic priest) in Catholic Matters. Difficulties with teachings are “not necessarily a problem. The problem arises when we assume that the problem is with the teaching and not with ourselves.”
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I have talked to a priest and discussed our situation with him. As I have stated previously on this thread he was very understanding and told us that our decision on this matter was our own business and that whatever we decided we would be welcomed into our local congregation and no more questions would be asked.
I would say that the problem arises when we assume that the problem is with ourselves and not with the “teaching”.
“it sounds to me as if you simply handpicked a subject on faith and morality and used it as a vehicle for argument on a catholic website”. So in your opinion would this make my argument false?
Harper and Morgan: please tone down the harsh comments toward each other. Thank you.
I’m not referring to your response to the Neuhaus quote, David, just to the personal comments you and Morgan have addressed to each other. It’s not bad to come on strong, but rude personal remarks and questioning others’ motives is going too far.
I’m a substitute moderator until Cade’s scheduled return next week.
Peace to all,
Eve gave her failed mortal corrupt life for the love of Adam, Adam would have lived mortally forever without the love of a dying Eve, but rejected failed authority, creating love, Jesus fulfills failed love eternally through immortal life from the incorruptible spirit again for One Family in One God in being.
The Autonomy of Catholicism is to be able to stand before the Holy Family self-righteous and justified from the Logical Formulas through the Wondrous Mysteries to be able to become again Transfigured in One Holy Spirit Family One God in being.
We cannot judge, only What would Jesus do?
Peace always,
Stephen
mystic to The Churches
I agree. My post was inappropriate. I have changed it.
A debate is a debate. While the question is phrased as a real-life personal issue. If not, the question could simply be raised as debate for the sake having one…
Whatever the Church teaches - keep it simple. I don’t know what that happens to be. I avoided marriage for the sake of everything to do with marriage on a normal daily schematic of things, let alone life-changing occurrences and tragedies. I salute anyone who can be brave enough to get wedded and put up with the difficulties. I replaced marriage with a coffee addiction and which suits me better.
The argument: One could argue that if a couple got married without prior knowledge of complications during pregnancy and which would be the probable reality, after which the couple is vowed to one-another, and love (eros) is to be shown during that marriage because otherwise you are really just good friends, rather than man and wife, then you have a right to engage in physical relations without the risk of death. You are married.
The difficulty: …However, a child can be born were you not to make it physically impossible. And so one would be replacing the death of a spouse with the death of a potential child. And one cannot kill.
I think the conclusion is to do with ‘killing indiscriminately’. You are not having an abortion; you are killing the possibility of naturally having a child and only because you kind of have to. And you are already married and neither of you suspected these particular trials.
‘Pastoral care’, a term I think sounds a bit fruity, might lead to such an answer as adopting as this way you honour the death of a potential child while being able to stay married. This answer, though, is not on behalf of the Church (necessarily, because I don’t know what the teaching is until grabbing a recap) but is rather a line of reasoning one could take up with the Church. God doesn’t do deals, while this would honour the concept of family.
You say the problems only began when you had your third child and so neither of you definitely knew of obstructions prior to marriage and therefore the above would seem appropriate. All the same, despite this rationale, changing yourselves, interiorly, is to be replaced with another less severe method to avoid (at all costs) a pregnancy - look up NFP.
And too, you should pray throughout so that any outcome is likely to be an answer. Only God can know for certain what will happen in any circumstance; by not bringing absolutes into your life and marriage it is a lived declaration that you intend to keep God as the one in charge.
For the record my story was not made up. My wife did have a blood disorder which resulted in her almost dying after giving birth to our third daughter. She was in intensive care for three days after almost bleeding to death.
I think you seriously need to pray about it, go overboard, ask others to pray for your future, maybe go on a sort of pilgrimage, together, and not take any risks or make any major decisions until having done so.
I can’t believe you haven’t been kicked off the forum for posting this.
Peace to all,
How is all today, David.
Many times as Catholic we have to attest the souls for saints and disciples for understanding.
If I may attest for the soul of Morgan, who has no family but us and coffee, and his choice, in some ways like Jesus married to His Passion the Church, and we respect, and I too like Java, he is only trying to save for all the family becoming again, as he sees Catholicism, I believe.
He means well for you and yours.
Call it what you want .,I also would love to take a trip for my family.
What Morgan portrays for all is What logically is best for the family is keep it functional in all respects.
Peace always,
Stephen
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I cannot imagine anyone more unqualified to be a moderator than Cade_One
Seeming attempts at the undermining of Our Lady’s Perpetual Virginity will get any Catholic, inclusive of my myself, riled. And I think that is why you got the reaction which you did. Nevertheless, those comments were not in order.