Prior to 1930, virtually all Christian Denominations were against contraception. Then the Anglican Church allowed the use of artificial forms of contraception in rare instances and this opened the floodgates for other Protestant Denominations to abandon their teachings against it.
And then one domino fell after the other, with many denominations accepting full blown abortion and many other atrocities. Protestantism has always been about twisting things to meet the selfish desires of the individual.
I don’t think Protestants (and sadly some Catholics), today, recognize the errors in contracepting. I believe the reason so many Christians now are fine with same-sex activities is because, what is the difference between contracepting and what same-sex couples do?
Secondly, what does the Bible say about contracepting? I have so-called “Bible-believing” co-workers who still hold (rightfully so) that same-sex activities are morally disordered, but these same Christians use the pill or their husbands have gotten broken, through a medical procedure. If you are Protestant (or maybe even Catholic) and you contracept in your Marriage, why do you believe this is okay? I am genuinely asking. Maybe you have a rational explanation that I have not thought of.
Thirdly, Jesus describes His relationship with the church as that of a husband and wife. In the Marital embrace both the male and the female give fully of themselves (no barriers) and in this covenantal embrace, life can flow from it. Likewise, Jesus gives fully of Himself to us (His bride) in the Eucharist and we (the church) ought to give of ourselves fully to Him. In this giving and receiving, life (or grace) flows from this gift of communion.
This is why it would be weird to have female or homosexual Priests presiding over the Sacraments. If the Priest is persona Christi, then life cannot, theologically speaking, come of it. Now, we know that it is Christ himself who gives grace. Just as Jesus could have healed the blind man without using His hands and mud, He chose to do it this way. Likewise, Jesus chose the Apostles to heal believers spiritually through tangible means. Christ could (and sometimes does) make exceptions, but as we have seen with the Anglican Council of 1930, exceptions quickly become the norm, especially for selfish reasons.
Know that this is not meant to be a personal attack on anyone who disagrees. Maybe some have never really thought about this. Others might have thought a lot about this and have a different perspective.
They just don’t know that it’s a sin I believe. Until I started my education in preparation for becoming Catholic a few years ago, I had no idea either.
I thank you for your perspective. I think sometimes it really is that simple.
I would make one distinction (but I’m not saying it is wrong to feel that it’s weird): I would say openly or actively homosexual priests. I would bet my last dime that there are priests with homosexual desires who are living chastely.
(I just discovered Catholic Talk, and this is my first post.)
Welcome! Happy you are here : )
This is an interesting piece of history. I’ll bet not many people know this.
In the U.S. there are many situations regarding “pro-life”, where faith ideologies make their way into secular politics, for instance the death penalty or incarceration for non-violent offenses. I’ve found the strongest advocates of things such as the death penalty are non-Catholic Christians, specifically Evangelical Protestants.
This is troubling to me as I consider myself a Christian being born and raised as Catholic. I don’t believe that these beliefs of contraception, death penalty, incarceration for non-violent offenses and others are in alignment with what Jesus taught us.
I agree with you @NickT1023. I used to be pro-death-penalty until we had a gentleman who was on death row (falsely accused) come speak at our Church. There was a Priest in Cleveland, who’s hobby is lawyering. He went to the prison and said, “I know everyone in Prison says they are innocent, but is there anyone in particular who comes to mind that should not be here?” This guy’s name came up a few times and so the Priest Lawyer began looking into his case. Not only did this Priest help free this innocent man (saving his life), he gave him work around the Parish until he could find someone who would hire an individual who had been accused and convicted of murder (even though he was later found to be innocent). It was an amazing story. I believe CNN (before Jeff Zucker took over) did a special on it if you can still fined it online.
I would say it’s apocalyptic in nature
What begins the spiritually eventually becomes a manifest physically
The Orthodox are spiritually contracepting against Peter refusing to accept the gift that God wills to give to the supreme apostolic see just as the woman is not fully receiving the man when she corrupts herself
The Protestants are even worse they contracept themselves spiritually not only from Peter but from all the bishops and tradition
Is there any Wonder then that what is accepted and orthodoxy in terms of divorce and remarriage and contraception is lesser than what Protestant success
The Orthodox have limited acceptance of birth unnatural birth control and divorce
They accept only barriers and you must consult the priest first
They accept three divorces no more
And with each remarriage the new Union is where is considered less favorable sacramentally or even lose a sacramentality
Protestants tend to accept any form of birth control unless they know about abortifacings
I’m Protestants are less generous with children than Orthodox in general
Finally most Protestants don’t regard marriage as a sacrament even though they have it and validity
And they used to accept any number of divorces though they do not like it
Hence again to the degree that a religion is separated from the church that has spiritual defense from it it will eventually accept the same degree of divorce and remarriage and contraception literally
Before I was Catholic I got “married” in a protestant church. The very first thing said at our first marriage counseling with the pastor was “we’ve got to get her on the pill.”
Ironically, by the prompting of the Holy Ghost I came to the knowledge that contraception was wrong before I even learned the history mentioned above or considered becoming Catholic.
I do think more and more protestants are waking up on this issue.
Thank you for sharing : )
In Catholic high school, around 1970 or 1971, at least one teacher told us emphatically that contraception was good and that it was wrong to object to it. In marriage preparation, a few years later, we heard about contraception not as a problem but as a choice. I was too young and ignorant, I suppose, to see the problem and object.
Question for you, meant to be respectful. What would be the difference between a heterosexual priest or a homosexual priest as long as they keep their vow of chastity. Even the catechism states it is the act not the desire that is the sin. If a man were to turn away from the sin, homosexual acts, to embrace God’s Holy Church as his vocation there should not be issue with that. Now if a priest breaks their vow of chastity, then there would be problems.
In the case of chastity, I would agree. It would be similar to a Priest who struggles with an attraction to alcohol. We need protectors though. Shepherds. We do not need effeminate fathers who follow whatever is fashionable among the culture(s). We need faithful men who stand up for what is right and just, even more so when it is unpopular.
Do not take this as a bash on femininity. Women and men compliment one another.
My Wife hates it when I say this, but I am the more effeminate of the two of us, but I am also strong in my faith (or at least I try to be with God’s grace). My Wife and I work well together, except when it comes time to make decisions. We are both horrible at making decisions : )
If you look at any Christian denomination that has female “ordination,” however, almost always, these Churches follow the immorality of popular culture; even sometimes celebrating it as a good. This is an inversion of what is good, true, and beautiful. The masculine has their flaws as well and can be quite ugly (pride, greed, lust, etc.)
I’m not asking for perfect Priests (not any one man is perfect), but I do Pray for men who are courageous to hear God’s call. What happened during the lockdowns was cowardice and our Priest quit (possibly because he saw how weak he truly was during this time). He was supposed to be one of the good ones, but he walked out on our church family. No reasons given, just all the reasons he wasn’t walking away for (no scandal that is), so I can only speculate. I still Pray for him.
So, back to your question. Yes, a chaste man with same-sex attraction can be a Priest, but we must also admit that his attractions are disordered and theologically problematic when he is supposed to be in persona Christi (representing Christ as the husband to the bride, His church). If the husband is not attracted to his bride (theologically speaking) can any fruit come of it? I know this might be deeper than you wanted to go, but on the surface you are correct, but if you go beyond the surface, there are problems with having a Priest with SSA or female priestesses.
Those who want to change the teaching and understanding of the Church that Christ founded in the apostles are free to choose a Christian Church that believes as they believe or plant their own Church. But, as G.K. Chesterton once said, “We do not really want a religion that is right where we are right. What we want is a religion that is right where we are wrong.”
If you want a Christian Church that “ordains” openly homosexual men and women, or men and women who believe they are the opposite, there are plenty of Churches to choose from. Lutherans are very close to Catholics, as far as Sacramental and Liturgically. The ELCA would probably be a wonderful fit for those who are pushing for this stuff. Some of the other Lutherans Churches (the Missouri Synod or the Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod), I would argue are more Catholic than our current Pope, but I digress. My point is, rather than change the Catholic Church to become more Protestant, why not just become Protestant? I know why. Social Justice. To many of these individuals, they see the Church’s teaching as unjust and have made it their mission to make the Church more in line with the modern beliefs of popular culture. Many have made their politics their religion, but this is another topic for another day.
I agree with Bugmom and Cade. I think that a priest can be chaste no matter what attractions he experiences, and I would not want a priest to be openly anything when it comes to sexual attractions. Discussing it in private with other priests is one thing, but openly acknowledging even heterosexual attractions sounds out of line to me.
How did we get from Protestant’s embracing Contraception to Priestly ordination Probably my fault. I have a way of going off on tangents and then bringing things back around