Can we get back to what you were saying, cause this involves the state of my soul. So do you believe that The Bible is the Word of God?
Are those the only two choices?
“And besides that, aren’t you being a hypocrite, judging me for what I am saying? Or is there some loophole you have for yourself, that judging is OK when it’s to stop judging from happening?”
No, I am not judging you. I have not said you are guilty or innocent, I haven’t said you are going to heaven or hell. If I mentioned what Scripture says and what it forbids while doing the thing it forbids, that could be hypocritical.
Peace to all,
To me what is logically lacking in the Catholic Church is the understanding of the fulfillment of the God from the Faith of Abraham.
Spirits awaiting in the Bosom of Abraham become saved from Faith through Morality in the Flesh of Christ out of the Bosom of Abraham from Sacrifice through Penance for both natures forgiven fulfilled from the spirit through the life becoming One Family, I believe.
Peace always,
Stephen
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Here’s what might be more charitable:
Jake, even if you don’t consider yourself Catholic any more, please keep in mind the Ten Commandments. It’s a serious obligation to keep the Lord’s Day holy.
(Jake, I don’t think I need to say this to you, I’m just trying to present JT’s concern in a charitable way.)
Well thank you Literalman, and yes, that would’ve been a lot more charitable than straight up saying I’m going to Hell because I’m not going to mass on Sunday.
But, to be honest with you, I didn’t get triggered about what he said. I used to, but I don’t get triggered anymore, cause I found out when I was working on my triggers that when someone of faith (Whether it be Catholic, Christian, etc…) says “…or you’ll got to hell.” The intention was they mean well. I know in JT’s heart that he would never desire for anyone to go to hell, no good-hearted hueman being desires for anyone to go to hell. But, in his mind, he was doing me a favor, because by him saying that I would go to hell, the hope would be that I wouldn’t go to hell and go back to Sunday Mass to avoid going to hell, because as a Catholic they have a Sunday obligation. Again, I go by intention, so the intention was good. There was no ill-intent mean’t by what he said. But, I didn’t get triggered, cause number 1, when you get triggered it usually means that whomever triggered me is displaying a behavior that I do not like about myself. I don’t like the feeling that I could potentially be going to hell. So what I did, was I healed that trigger, and not only did I heal it, I also acknowledged and integrated that part of myself that I didn’t like. And the other reason why it didn’t trigger me was because, I don’t believe that there’s an actual place called Hell. I think that Earth is Hell, but I do not believe that Hell is an actual place with fire in it, and everyone’s suffering, and there’s demons hurting people down there….nothing like that. I mean, heck, even my good Catholic friend is constantly telling me, both directly and indirectly depending on what she says, that I’m going to hell, and I’m still her friend cause I know she means well, and intention is everything with me.
However, thank you very much Literalman, I appreciate the kind words and the wisdom behind your words. Because you saw how someone could misconstrue that as something that is bad, especially with the way it was worded. So, I do appreciate that you chimed in and reminded us all that there’s no need for judgement here. We all want the truth, that’s really all all of us want at the end of the day, is the truth. So thank you for that.
But, I guess he’s done answering my questions, which is fine. I innerstand. And @jaytea God bliss you! I wish you well.
I think that you’re more worried about appearances than what is in the heart, and that would make you a whitewashed sepulcher in the words Christ used to describe this.
We’re done here. No offense was taken. You’ve said your peace and we’ve said ours. No need to drag this out. Like I said there’s no need for judgement here….we’re just having a discussion is all. If you have nothing of value to add to the conversation, best to just move on JT.
I think I’m turning dyslexic or autistic, but I just realized the word “this” has the exact same letters as another word 
[Ponders joining a Boggle® traveling team]
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What is lacking in the Church?
A sort of malaise has set in because the world’s culture is so counter to Catholic values and younger people are not being educated in specific Catholic doctrines or history.
Mind you, the latter has been going on for a while. I remember, as a new enthusiastic Catholic in the 1970s, teaching at a Catholic High School and using an extract from James Joyce’s Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man that featured the word ‘monstrance’. Only one student in the class, the headmaster’s son, knew what it meant.
What’s lacking in the church are priests, nuns and laypersons who dare to stand up for Church doctrines and moral teachings instead of being timid, apologetic types (like me, mea culpa).
I hope our new Pope will stand out as a leader and inspirer of faith.
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Enough name-calling, insults, and speculation about my thoughts, JT. I’m not going to read anything else you write.
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There is a whole world put there of people who “act out” a life that isn’t true, and they all help each other out. These persons go around signalling to the others what they are acting out, which is of course always “being good” and the others respond by affirming the false appearance that is created. This activity has taken hold among many who call themselves Catholic just the way that it took hold of the Jewish authorities in Christ’s day.
Nobody is good because he wishes to be. It doesn’t work that way. There is no reward in Heaven for trying to be good. The devil himself would be “good” (in a worldly sense) if he could be, but only without God. The one who is with God will share in God’s glory. The one who is not cannot make himself good. God makes us good, and only if it pleases Him.
There are numerous instances in the gospels where Jesus tells us that we must be good, or obey the commandments, or love our neighbours, or leave worldly things to help others, if we hope to reach heaven. He tells us to struggle to enter heaven by the narrow gate. i.e. struggle as in ‘try hard’. So Jesus obviously sees ‘trying to be good’ as having some point.
I prefer Jesus’s authority to yours.
But isn’t it by your own “authority” that you tell me what Jesus said and meant? So when you say you “prefer Jesus’ authority” you can only mean that you prefer to dictate how to interpret the Bible.
Wasn’t Saint Paul trying to serve God when he murdered Christians? And yet we know that it was not until Jesus knocked him off his horse that he began on the path to Sainthood. Christ did say “I come not to abolish the law but to fulfill it” yet we also know that the law does not give life but death. Nobody is saved because of his own effort, the very point of Jesus coming to die for our sins is because of this.
Peace to all,
Jesus is The Eternal priestly Authority through the becoming the New Living Sacrifice for Isaac’s fulfillment, from The Faith of Abraham, from Animal Sacrifices through the New Living Sacrifice transforming glorifying and transfiguring natures through One Body becoming again for all creation in One Holy Spirit Family One Goid in being, OMNiLogically.
Peace always,
Stephen
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No - I can read what Jesus said and I believe that he meant what he said. I could, if I had time, line up textual references from the Gospel showing that Jesus linked entrance to heaven/ heavenly rewards with doing good things. For example, Matthew 7:21 -
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Today is ‘Bible Sunday’ where the Pope is asking us to read the bible and ponder it. I am allowed to use my own mind in this process, even though the church does have the ultimate authority to interpret and explicate scripture.
Saying that God likes those who love their neighbours and help them does not mean that people who try to do good are not sinners or that they don’t need to be saved by Jesus’s sacrifice on Calvary.
It just means that we should still ‘try’ even though our own efforts won’t be enough, and that if we try to do good, God will be pleased with us. The person who doesn’t try - like the servant who buried his talent - will not be rewarded - indeed, will be punished.
The problem with the Pharisees was not their doing good or obeying the law, but that they did it for public acclaim.
I like what Saint Paul said about this “show me your faith without works, I’ll show you my faith through my works.” The works are indeed evidence of something, and those who serve appearances will make sure it looks like they are doing good, and you might recognize them by their concern over how it looks when someone does something. Those who do works that are truly good aren’t doing their own works, nor are they deciding for themselves to do the work of God because only God decides to do His own work and if I am one of the tools He uses then that will be good for me.
I disagree with the way you interpret the writings of Paul, though I acknowledge that it is mainly Pauline texts that have inspired some branches of Christianity to deny Free Will.
In the Lord’s Prayer it says, ‘Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us’. This to me suggests that Jesus believed we have Free Will to decide how we should act, and that God will react accordingly. And that is the way most of us live our lives - believing that each individual has choices and responsibilities, and esteeming people who go out of their way to help others.
You are perfectly free to believe otherwise. The only reason I bothered to respond was that I thought it might be discouraging to other people. Hail & Farewell.
Free will is not the freedom to choose between good and evil. The notion that free will consists of choosing between good and evil is not Christian in any way. Let me ask you this, did Adam and Eve choose between good and evil?
What Christ said is that “you did not choose me, I chose you.” This is Christian. A will is only free inasmuch as a will is good, and a will is only completely free when it is in Heaven. No soul chooses to go to hell, no soul would choose that, and no soul in hell is free at all. This is what is Christian.
As I said above, you are free to think what you will, just as I am free to disagree with you.
I have formed my own opinions based on my reading of the gospels & the teachings of the Catholic Church.
Live long & prosper.
‘’‘’‘’‘’‘’‘’‘’‘’‘’‘’‘’‘’‘’‘’‘’‘’‘’‘’‘’‘’‘’‘’‘’‘’‘’‘’‘’‘’‘’‘’‘’‘’‘’‘’‘’‘’‘’‘’‘’‘’‘’‘’‘’‘’‘’‘’‘’’
Edit:
I know now that my time tonight could have been spent better than discussing Christian ethics with someone who condemns people who try to be good as ‘acting out’, but whose own ambition, according to their profile, is to be ‘a pain in the ass’. I wish I’d noticed that earlier.
One certainly learns a lot about human beings by coming on the internet!
Every soul in hell has it’s own opinion.