It begins by it’s polytheism.
@Question I’m pretty sure you’re just trolling, but I don’t have two marriages just because there are two persons in my marriage. It doesn’t work like that
I have no IDEA what your talking about!
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@Question so how is anyone supposed to have a conversation with you then? I made a stupidly simple statement to contradict your accusation of polytheism, and you say you don’t understand? Is the only purpose of understanding a thing to reinforce one’s own asserted belief? And that which might threaten one’s own asserted belief must not be understood?
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It goes well beyond THAT.
Just because the clergymen who founded the dogma ***
SAY
*** it’s One when it is really THREE just makes it foolish, as I once was, to BELIEVE it!
Ok, that’s not a logical argument though. The property of personhood and the property of godness are not identical properties, similarly to how the property of marriage and the property of personhood are not identical properties. You have one marriage, and two persons. In Trinity you have one God, and three persons.
That’s logic. If I am wrong, you should be able to supply logic that explains how I am wrong. We don’t need your insults, we don’t need your sad memes, we need your participation in the conversation. This tactic of “you’ll take what I say because I’ll be a jerk to you if you don’t” is really like a Stockholm syndrome from accepting what the world has to offer you.
This is one of the problems today . Every lay person wants to be a theologian without the academics . The church is a hierarchy ! It is founded on authority and derives from that authority .
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The Church is all of us. The members of the clergy are humans, all humans are sinners. The sacraments are not desiccated by the priest or bishop who gives them. We all must stick together and pray for our veneration of the church. When we speak of the improprieties of the clergy we are talking about 3%. One is too many, but Jesus is still with us. Satan is always working to destroy us, especially the ones who are working the hardest to lead us to the salvation we have been promised. Satan is the greatest of all the liars. Revelation 12 tells of Satans attack on Mary and her birth of our savior of Jesus. All of us must work together and push for the positives of the Truth offered by the one true church. 1Timothy 3:14-15
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I think 2Thessalonians 2:14-15 would have something to say about that. Scripture and Tradition. The church does give through tradition (the bible was written in Greek and the Greek word for tradition was parodasis (sp) meaning to pass down.
The biggest thing the Church lacks is transparency. I’ve been saying this on here, and I’ll say it again, stop hiding things from your followers. Stop being vague about things, and allow people into the Vatican Secret Archives. If you prohibit something, or ban a book, or get rid of a verse, go into detail as to why you prohibit something, don’t be vague or mysterious. This is about our afterlife here, this isn’t something that should be toyed with or omitted. If the Church will ever be transparent about everything, maybe then I would reconsider joining.
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This strikes me as an image of the parable where the rich man said, from the afterlife, of his brothers on earth that if one came back from the dead they would believe. The church is incredibly transparent, it is your accusation of the church lacking transparency that is vague. When Luther was excommunicated, there was great effort taken to have him meet with the church, it was Luther that refused to engage, not the church. The teachings of the church are subjected to intense scrutiny by the church itself, yielding encyclicals that answer every question that arises and in timely manner. Anyone can write about the teachings of the Church, and there are countless resources available to learn about them, not the least of which is the Summa Theologica, or the Treatise on the Love of God. If the Church was more transparent, it would be invisible!
Interesting cause one of the reasons why I left the Church is because I had questions that would never get answered….and in-fact, when I would get an answer, it sounded like they were tip-toeing around the question, or they would simply just say “I don’t have an answer.” And at first I was like “Oh ok…they don’t have an answer. Well, maybe someone else will have an answer.” And I remember going to several Priests, and a few Cardinals and Bishops, and they didn’t have an answer either. So at first, I innerstood, but as my questions grew, the answers to those questions weren’t getting resolved, or if they were, they simply didn’t know. And on top of which, learning about the Vatican Secret Archives didn’t help matters, because what if there is something in those archives that can help out huemanity? Like, what if there’s a document, and all it has is one big mathematical equation for how to get rid of something like Cancer, that maybe the reason why some people have Cancer could be that there’s a spiritual component that needs to be addressed. And what if that document just has a mathematical equation, but nothing on the document stating what it is or who came up with it, it’s just sitting there collecting dust? Basically what I’m saying is, it got to a point where I had more questions than answers, and after hearing “I don’t know” and what appeared like to me to be dodgy behavior or not given a straight answer on anything, I left, because I feel like my questions are important. I mean, this is the afterlife we’re talking about here, so I was hoping to be taken a little serious but I wasn’t.
I mean, that’s just one reason I left. The other reason was because eventually in my life I got to a point where I thought I was going to Hell. And, because I thought that my destination was Hell, I felt that it didn’t matter any amount of good or any amount of bad that I did on this Earth, it wouldn’t matter anyways cause my destination was Hell. And again, I went to Priests, and Bishops, and Cardinals, and they would pray over me, and maybe give me some advice, but by the time I was trying to get their help, it’s like it wasn’t really working. I was convinced I was going to Hell and that I was beyond saving. I mean, never in my life did I sink that low, and I don’t have a jail record. I never had an arrest out for me, like I was perfectly ok, but it seemed like my only destination was Hell so what’s the point? So that was also a reason why I left The Church, cause I didn’t like the fact that anytime I did something nice for someone that I didn’t feel like it mattered, cause it does matter, but being a part of the Catholic religion really wasn’t helping matters. And of course, with certain questions not getting answered, and because I didn’t have any friends at the time (cause I was born with a stutter and apparently it makes people think that you’re stupid, even though I would get straight A’s in school), I decided that it was time to move on. I believe in Jesus and God, but not the same way Catholics/Christians believe in God. I’m not part of any Church, nor do I have a book written by man for man to follow, and it was only after I stopped going to Church and being done with religion altogether is when I started making friends and started living a much fuller life. And if that makes me an evil person, or a bad person, than yeah….I’m a terrible horrible person who praises God in other ways.
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Well that’s a lot of words, but I still have no idea what your questions were.
Oh…you want to answer my questions? Ok, well if that’s the case, be my guest.
I started typing all the questions I had, but, let’s go over them one by one, cause I have other things I have to do today…
1.) If Jesus is God, then why does he talk about his Father in Heaven, or that he’s the Son of God? I thought Jesus was God. Like, explain to me the logic behind how you can have an immortal Godhead 1 in 3?
Well, let’s start with how a human person can have both a body and a soul. The body is not the soul, and the soul is not the body, but the two belong together nonetheless more than gasoline and an engine belong together.
God has three persons. God and the three Persons of God belong together, and are indeed more One than gasoline while it is within the engine is one with the engine.
Now, just as a family can have four or five persons and still be one family, so also God can have three persons and still be one God.
Next question?
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I see a little more to your question than my answer provided. It seems that you would want to ask also, if Jesus is God then how is it that where Jesus is, God is if God is three persons and Jesus is just one? Well, I would like to start by pointing out that when we speak of Jesus this way we often prefer to call Him “the Christ.” It isn’t necessary exactly, it’s just more clear in what way we are speaking of Jesus by using a name that is associated with Him having the fullness of God in one person. The word Jesus Himself uses to describe this phenomenon is “heir.” For Jesus to represent to us the Father perfectly, so that the Father is not absent but is truly present wherever the Son is says something about their relationship they have to each other. In the world we have law to represent what has happened here, hence Jesus’ use of the word “heir.” If I as the father of my family designate my son to go to the city and do my work there for me, while I stay behind and do my work where I stay, then I legally have designated my son as “the family” as regards the city. Now, my son and I are quite imperfect compared to God, and there would be enough inefficiency in this that those who saw my son’s work would be able to see some absence of mine in it, but God is perfect and when the Son of the Father goes into the world to do His Father’s work, the Father is present without any loss in the Son.
But how?
So, I can agree that the body, soul, and mind work in tandem, but you mentioned only 2 things working together. There’s 3 beings, so I’m going to assume you mean’t that the body, soul, and mind work together, or is that not correct?
So with the gas being in the engine, it becomes one with the engine. So are you saying that the they have the ability to merge and demerge? So like for example, If Jesus wanted to become God, at any point, he can by shapeshifting or morphing into an invisible being that no one else can see? Like, how does that work?
Right, but in order for a family to have four or five persons, a Mom and a Dad have to be present in order for the Dad to impregnate Mom. And then Mom pops out a kid (or in your example 2-3 kids). But it’s not like the kids can merge with Mom and Dad, not even Mom and Dad can do that on their own, so I fail to see how this example relates to the fact that God can be 1 person or 3 persons at the same time, or separately.
And in response to the long response about Jesus, I’m wanting to know the process by which Jesus, God, and the Holy Spirit can become 1 being or 3 separate beings but still be 1 God.
You seem to be stuck on wishful thinking of God as being like yourself. There is no “process for God becoming three persons” as God in Himself does not become anything, God IS and that’s it. God did “become man” and that is why the incarnation is a peculiar event. As far as God being three persons in one God, it is a case of being, not becoming.
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May I suggest you review the Athanasian Creed? CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: The Athanasian Creed
I never said God was a family. I compared the two, because just like a family can have more than one person but still be one family, so also God can have more than one person and still be one God, because just as the properties of family and persons do not contradict each other, so also the properties of God and persons do not contradict each other.