What came first, the Homer or the ancient Greek religion?

I just scan-read that Homer essentially gave shape, a framework, to…what was already in existence…the Greek religion, setting up a story which encompasses all the various characters, and for the Romans to have literally taken on the religion of the Greeks, surely there must have been a belief-system in place dating back before the writer for there to have been an element of the unknowing that anyone with an intellect would have bothered taking any notice of what would even at the time otherwise been a known work of mere fiction.

And yet, we know that Homer would have orated his stories in poetry format for entertainment in courts and other associated places and word-of-mouth can like wild-fire give rise to folk-stories and myth and which eventually becomes an idea for people to grasp onto.

St. Paul said that the gods of the pagan religion and which the Romans believed in, are demons, but did St. Paul mean this literally in direct reference to supposed gods used as objects of idol-worship, or did he mean that the gods which were clearly the substance of superstition were demon-like in their behaviour (akin to demons).

I always took it that he meant that the pagan gods were demons in actuality, and historical knowledge could help to expand on this understanding, and yet surely the reality of the pagan gods being demons only makes sense if the religion came first, except maybe not…

St. Augustine of Hippo said that one must begin an argument accepting as a first premise that Scripture is true and so, therefore, knowing that St. Paul was correct and with no reason to doubt him, anyway, as he was directly appointed by Christ and was driven by the Holy Spirit and further backed-up by the (other) Apostles, his discipleship accounted for in Revelation:

Though we know all religions are fictitious in terms of the various elements which make up the whole, and the consequential manifestation of their ideas then formed into a god or plural, minus Christianity, while specifically honing in on the ancient pagan religion, could it be that the story devised by Homer soon became Eastern European folklore and myth then obtaining religious followers, only for the characters to be hailed as gods with followers then driven by demons, the initial idea itself behind the conception of these gods and which is hero-worship motivated by demons and so the religion then formed being based on demonic activity as spread through a false path.

One might say in response, as said above, that all religions are originally fictitious, and so why does it matter as to who devised it, the question of derivation still worth thinking about, however, because most religions begin with nature and a gradual development which consists of an entwined connection between people and their living environments / habitats, whereas the pagan religion if devised by Homer was constructed to be literary fiction; and, consequently, if the case, how then can literature be a demonic force and which gives rise to questions of possession through reading-material as a source.

I would personally sum up in direct reference to the context of St. Paul’s assertion by saying that he meant that the gods of the pagans were, on general terms, demons, and not that Aries is this particular demon and Artemis was that demon and Zeus that one over there…He is rather saying that the pagan religion consists of demonic activity, but to what origin remains in entirety open-ended.

Peace to all,

Ancient Greek religion came first. While Homer’s epics (circa 8th/9th century BCE) structured the stories of the gods, the religion itself evolved centuries earlier from Minoan and Mycenaean traditions. Homer formalized the pantheon, but divine worship existed during the Bronze Age

Akin to Demons: This “fear of the gods” (deisidaimonia) is framed by Plutarch as actually being a “fear of lower spirits” or “demonical powers” (daimones). These, he argues, are malevolent or indifferent beings that cause anxiety and distress, which the superstitious wrongly confuse with the actions of benevolent deities.

Spirits are the common denominator of all faiths, and pagan religions, all faiths try to identify these spirits.

Saint Pual identifies teh God from the Faith of Abraham as Jesus, and faithfully identifies the soul as created from the spirit through the flesh, faithfully in the Christ.

Saint Paul didi not understand the logic of today through communcations in the early centuries.

Today through understanding finite minds can understand infinite disciplines through logic, trusted and verified through the Wondrous Mysteries in the Cathiolic Faith.

We can become the Saint Paul struck by the Light of Faith for all becoming Struck by the OMNiLogical Light for all to be able to see God with new eyes. To see the Holy Family becoming again in all One God in being. To realize natures become hypo-statically united from powers prexisting and Personal Gods in being becoming again for all.

Peace always,
Stephen

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“…the religion itself evolved centuries earlier from Minoan and Mycenaean traditions.”

Doesn’t necessarily mean that the Greek pagan religion didn’t start with him, otherwise the Greek and Roman religions would be specifically attributed to Minoan and Mycenaean traditions. And which they weren’t. They took the belief-system on, as a religion within itself. They would have likely been strongly influenced by Homer’s narratives.

If you have some references dating back to before Homer, because Homer ‘borrowing’ aspects of a previous religion gone-by would make sense. I could see how ancient religions formed by one’s living habitat could directly incur the worshipping of manifesting demons (‘spirits of nature’), whereas demons manifested from literary works has to be by way of possession (and which if you think about the direction which horror films come from, is not a benign theory).

"Saint Paul did not understand the logic of today through communcations in the early centuries.

You are proselytizing. Understood as such by repetition in your posts.

Peace to all,

Sorry, i don’t mean to preach and will be more careful in the future, thanks.

The Minoan (c. 3000–1450 BCE) and Mycenaean (c. 1750–1050 BCE) civilizations were Europe’s first advanced, literate societies. Flourishing on Crete, the Minoans built grand palaces (e.g., Knossos) and maintained a sea-based trading empire. The Mycenaeans, a martial, mainland-based culture, later adopted and adapted Minoan cultural practices, including artistry, writing (Linear B), and architectural styles before succeeding.

I helps for understanding the gods, heroes, and human life I believe.

Homer The gods are immortal, superior beings who act with human-like emotions—experiencing rage, grief, and jealousy. They are described as “freakishly gigantic” and intervene directly in human affairs.

Basically a Spirit Based only, Religion, Homer’s religion has a myth of the world as opposed to a myth of the soul: the gods provide depth and significance to humans who are active in the world. Free will is complicated because there is no logical border between human and divine activity.

The Gods of Homer had Sacrifice for the return to friendship to the Gods for man.

The dead are seen in only one nature from the spirit salvation only, are seen as “powerless heads” or spirits (shades) that exist in a gloomy afterlife, as explored in the Odyssey.

The progression of Religion is good content for today for all learning, I believe.

Peace always,
Stephen

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It is amazing to think that literary capability stretches as far back, while there were evolving means to communication even before the Bronze Age.

It would be exceptionally interesting to read of direct reference to these pre-Homer ancient religions and / or connected literary works.

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