Replace the word ‘logic’ with ‘reason’ and then you’re a percentage of the way towards putting yourself back enroute. With logic alone you cannot see God with new eyes, unless you worship Sanyo or Asus or Acer or Panasonic or LG or Samsung or Lenovo or IBM or Toshiba or any stone-cold god which thinks by means of formulated ‘calculations’ that might have ‘programmed’ us into being.
God’s a Mystery. Logic? Get over it.
Adam and Eve’s fall didn’t “create” anything. God is not ‘cause and effect’. And they were not on strings. God booted them out of Eden, out of justice, Adam and Eve acting upon Satan’s temptation, God out of MERCY then sending His Son to redeem the world. Not out of calculus.
To add, it is true that when we are outside of Eden, this is because we have taken ourselves there with God’s ordered universe in place that has such corrections for our own benefit; and, of course, Hell is a place we send ourselves to. We fall to Hell. God doesn’t kick us into Hell. While, in Genesis, Satan’s fall from Heaven and Adam and Eve’s betrayal are so unfathomably ground-shaking that God Himself is seen to intervene. Still, God respects His own ordered Creation and His own Holy Will. Satan cannot reach Heaven again because he made a one-in-an-eternity decision in relation to his own fundamentally angelic nature and which set him on an eternally evil course, while Adam and Eve’s betrayal had God respond with mercy…because God according to our human nature in respect of His Creation and Holy Will was given to do so. Just as God responded to Abraham when Sodom and Gomorrah were misbehaving in abhorrent fashion.
As for: ‘Mary worship in the Catholic Church’. This is a protestantized question.
Catholics devote themselves to Our Lady as devout sons and daughters in Christ and of Our Lady who is Mother to the Church. Hyper-dulia is similar to worship in many respects and God wouldn’t have it any other way. Our Lady would have something to say were people to literally worship her in place of God as she is all for her Son. If you don’t like this, join a different Church or more likely stay where you are because quite frankly it’s rude.
Catholics venerate the saints as well as holy relics and statues; to Our Lady, there is devotion and which is more than dulia and which is what Catholics give to the saints as Our Lady is Mother of the saints.
Protestants, similar to rationalists and modernists, do not seek to enter into knowledge of God’s mysteries and therefore on many levels, explicitly, the dogmas of the Church. Pretty much their own religion. Ecumenism can, by and large, be something of a pretence.
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Lk1:37 For nothing will be impossible with God."The angles are only messenger,but they carry the words of the Father ,Hail full of Grace Lk1:28.If God said about the words to the prophet Jeremiah how much more to Mother Mary,thus she is the immaculate conception at her birth and forever immaculate.
Jeremiah 1:5 “Before I formed you in the womb I knew you,and before you were born I consecrated you;I appointed you a prophet to the nations.”.
Song of Solomon 4:12 A garden locked is my sister, my bride,a garden locked, a fountain sealed.
Pax
You will never find Catholics asking Mary to forgive our sins. That is not how we pray to Mary. Mary is the mother of God and she is venerated or honored as such. So yes we pray to Mary and we ask for her intercessory prayers. It is like you asking a neighbor to, “keep Angie” in the neighbor’s prayers. These are intercessory prayers. But of course when we are asking the Blessed Mother to intercede on our behalf then how much more is that greatness! I always like to end it a little more casual with this, “If Mary was good enough for Jesus…then she is good enough for me!” As a Catholic I invite you to open your heart to the Holy Family as it is not just Mary we pray to for intercessory pray, but all of the Saints as well! Amen!
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We are honoring the Mother of God. These statues are Holy Reminders much like when we have loved ones pictures framed and put on a shelf. They are reminders of that loved one. <3
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Saints are among the living, not the dead.
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Jesus in the garden Gethsemane asked his apostles to join him in prayer. Why wouldn’t you follow his example and ask Mary and the Saints to join you in prayer? It is like a candle in a dark room. It doesn’t throw off much light. But a hundred candles illuminates the whole room. When you have important prayers and petitions, you need to light up the room.
There is that one Prayer that some recite during the Rosary that I struggle with. Hail Holy Queen. I get what the Prayer is asking (“show unto us the blessed fruit of thy womb, Jesus” to which I say Amen!), but the parts leading up to this border on what some might call idolatry, though I know that it is not. It just feels a little too close for comfort for me personally.
Hay brother, thanks for your post. Many years ago before I converted into Catholicism, the teaching and preaching of the various church pastors would pick and choose what verses and books of the Bible to base their doctrines on. That is what’s called “Cafeteria Christianity”, as if we can choose certain scripture and ignore others. I use to do that myself, a lot.
Did you know that Christianity is 2000 years old?
Did you know that each of those 2000 years are included in Salvation history?
Do you also know that many many centuries pasted before the Bible as a whole canon was came into existence?
And during those many many years without a Bible, all those Christians learned from the Church by preaching and handing down by word of mouth the Christian religion. That’s amazing, isn’t it. Imagine where you’d be, or what you’d believe, if there were no Bible yet in print.
To make a point, not everything Christian in our beliefs, are found in the Bible. These are what’s called "Traditions." And the Apostle Paul encouraged followers to receive what the Apostles handed down to them by word of mouth and hold on to those traditions which they were taught by Church elders.
Today, there are many Christian traditions which you, too, follow, but not found in the Bible. For example, where exactly in the Bible does it tell us exactly what Books of the Bible should be there? It’s not there, because its Tradition. And where exactly in the Bible (New Testament) can we find the word “Trinity” of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost? Yet you believe, too as you should, in the Trinity.
My point is … be open to receiving what the Church teaches us. The only motive the Church has for wanting to teach you these things is for the salvation of your soul, that you too can have as billions of Christians before us have done so.
Take your time, and examine one Church teaching at at time. Then move on to the next teaching. +
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The Wedding of Cana is an amazing story in the Bible. Jesus objects to his mother suggesting to the waiters that her son can help. Mary over rules him and says to do whatever he says - and Jesus does it. In other words, she re-directed him, and he obeyed her. It is also Mary telling him to get on with His mission. Thus, it seems to me that Mary holds a special place in Jesus’ life on Earth and is involved with the apostles after his ascension. John also writes of her unique status in Revelations - and it is her, not Jesus, St. Michael, not Peter or Paul, etc. who crushes the head of the serpent. And it is Mary who returns to Earth to deliver messages - not Moses, Abraham, David, Peter or Paul. In my humble opinion, trying to reduce Mary to a mere human or worse, an idol, may be offensive to God - and a heresy. Tread lightly and pray for those who hold a reduced view of Mary.
say the word “advocate”
After each phrase
first line
Hail, holy queen, Advocate
second line
Mother of mercy, advocate
3rd
Our life, advocate
4th
Our, sweetness, advocate
5th
Our hope, advocate
so let’s dissect just those first 5 lines
In the first line,
“Hail Holy Queen”
we are paying homage to our holy queen.
She is the mother of Jesus and holy indeed is she, as she advocates for us
Second line,
“mother of mercy”
Jesus is the king of mercy
Mary is the queen of Mercy
It is through Mary that we have been given the opportunity to have Jesus
this might be where people pump the brakes. They might be so afraid to admit that.
But this is how God has written our salvation. it is God’s decision. God has given us Jesus through Mary.
It is through Mary that salvation is born
with mathematical certainty, this is true
So now let’s look at the third line
“Our life”
Here we are reminded that our life is saved through Jesus
Mary advocates for our life…how?
she appeals to God, the father
With our rosaries
With our sacrifices that we join on the cross with the ultimate sacrifice, of course from Jesus our Savior
This is why we pray rosaries.
This is why the blessed mother has come throughout the centuries.
God allows her visitations to advocate for us.
If we listen to God through Mary, then we have the opportunity to not only save our soul, but the ability to help other souls out of purgatory as well
Now let’s look at the fourth line
“Our sweetness”
Mary doesn’t threaten us
She comes to us as a loving mother
To warn us, to advocate for us
Look how she spoke to Juan Diego
“Am I not your mother”
look how she helped the married couple at the wedding feast at Cana with Jesus first miracle. It was her sweetness that encouraged Jesus to perform his miracle actually before he was even ready to do so
i’m sure there’s countless other examples of her sweetness, but these are the first two that came to mind right away
I believe the ultimate sweetness was her speaking to the angel Gabriel and saying yes to God, even though she didn’t understand, she trusted
this is the ultimate sweetness
It is honey in the desert
It is Manna from the sky
It is quail from God himself
Now let’s look at the last line
“Our hope”
Jesus is the king of Hope
Mary is the mother of the king
It is through Mary that we have hope
This doesn’t mean it suddenly cancels out the hope of Jesus our Lord and Savior.
It only means that it carries through her veins.
As an advocate
As the mother of God
As a perfect creature created by God put in place by God himself
To say yes
To give Hope
To give glory
To give birth to our one true savior, Jesus Christ
As Jesus is our savior incarnate,
Mary is our advocate incarnate
So I invite you to pray the Hail holy Queen prayer With this understanding of Mary as advocate throughout the entire prayer
You don’t necessarily have to say
the word “advocate” out loud, but you have to think of the prayer in that context.
Amen
First, I want to thank you for taking the time to expand on this and share. I have no problem and fully understand that Mary is the “New Eve” and a part of the plan for Salvation. Agree a hundred percent!
This is where I take a step back. I am skeptical of Marian Apparitions that contain secrets and I error on the side of caution.
I know this bothers some in this online community, but we are not obligated to believe in Apparitions.
I believe Mary can and does appear to individuals and comforts, helps, and leads individuals to her Son, Jesus Christ, our Savior, but when private revaluation teeters on public revelation, this is where I’m out.
Let me explain here what I am not saying. I am not saying that you should not believe in these Apparitions. I am not claiming that I can prove that they are not valid. And I am not saying that these Apparitions are demonic ether.
Again, this phrasing is making me get a little itchy. “Listen to God through Mary?” Yeah, that is a step too far for me.
I do love Mary. And I do believe Jesus gave Mary at the foot of the Cross to His beloved (all those who have been Baptized into the family of God). No problem there.
Where I start to feel uneasy is when a devotion borders on superstition or Gnosticism.
I want to be clear that I am not attacking anyone who believes approved Marian Apparition and that Mary has revealed secrets to certain individuals. I just ask that those who do not fully accept these private revelations as gospel, are not somehow viewed as less faithful or not Catholic enough. Because I do take my faith seriously, which is why I am cautious when individuals make certain claims.
I also want to say that if anyone is hesitant to become Catholic, because they feel like they have to believe in Marian Apparitions or Pray certain Prayers that go beyond the devotion that you are comfortable with, know that you can be a Catholic Christian and not believe in these personal devotions, even if some, who are more passionate about them than others, may try to pressure you.
And I am not saying that I feel pressured by anyone here, but I have met some individuals who insist that Catholics should believe as they do when it comes to these private revelations.
Erring on the side of caution is perfectly reasonable. But it’s worth noting that the “secrets” in approved Marian apparitions aren’t doctrinal or Gnostic. They don’t add to public revelation, and they’re never treated as part of the Gospel. They’re simply conditional warnings or future events meant to call people to repentance. Public revelation is closed, so even authentic secrets remain private revelation—nothing more.
If Mary can appear, comfort, help, and lead people to Christ—as you affirm—then She is already exercising a real, grace‑filled mediation. Private revelation doesn’t “teeter on public revelation” simply because God chooses to speak through Her. Public revelation is closed; private revelation never adds doctrine. So the very thing you’re comfortable with (Mary appearing and guiding souls) already presupposes the principle you’re uneasy about.
God the Word came to us through Mary in the Incarnation. If that is not “a step too far,” then it’s hard to see how God speaking through Mary as His messenger would be. The first is the greatest act of mediation in history; the second is simply its extension.
When you mention devotions “bordering on superstition or Gnosticism,” I think it’s important to clarify what the Church actually means by those terms. Superstition is when someone treats a practice as magical or mechanically effective apart from faith in Christ. Gnosticism is the claim that salvation depends on secret knowledge unavailable to the rest of the Church. Authentic Marian apparitions, when approved, don’t function that way: they don’t promise magical outcomes, and they don’t offer secret knowledge necessary for salvation. They simply call people back to the Gospel, repentance, prayer, and fidelity to Christ. So the concern is understandable, but the categories don’t really apply to approved private revelation as the Church understands it.
Most, if not all, who accept authentic private revelations rightly recognize that they do not constitute a new Gospel, even though they can be truly inspired by God.
Amen! I agree with this 
percent!
I was with you for a second there, but then you stepped past the line. Mary is the theotokos, not an ángelos of the Lord.
Calling Mary Theotokos doesn’t exclude Her from being a messenger of God. “Ángelos” means messenger, and Scripture applies that term to humans as well (Galatians 4:14). If Mary can appear, comfort, help, and lead people to Christ—as you affirm—then She is already mediating God’s grace and guidance. Verbal communication is simply another mode of that same mediation. The Incarnation is the greatest mediation through Mary; authentic private revelation is just its lesser extension. How is the greatest mediation in history—God the Word coming to us through Mary—not “a step too far,” while a lesser mediation, God speaking through Mary, suddenly is?
That’s fair.
Correct.
Galatians implies that they received the Apostle Paul as though he were an angel of the Lord, rather than like a criminal. Not that he is an angel sent by God to appear to them in spirit-form to deliver a message.
How do we know that he meant “as though,” because the verse does not end there. It goes on to say, “or even as Christ Jesus” himself. And I’m pretty sure you agree that St. Paul is not the Messiah.
When Christ refers to mediation, it is speaking in context of His Sacrifice. Many Protestants and Evangelicals tend to twist 1 Timothy 2:5 to mean Praying only to Jesus. That is not what Scripture is referring in this verse.
In the proper context, Mary does not mediate in the same sense as Jesus, the sole mediator, has/does.
Again, I don’t understand what you mean. You are talking about two different things here. I agree that Mary is Co-Redemptrix (not equal to Jesus, but rather played a role in Salvation). If you believe she is equal to or in place of Christ in some cases, then you and I disagree. Authentic private revelation is not “an extension,” but different from the role she played in the incarnation.
Maybe you and I use different ways of speaking. I do not know which part of the Divided States of America you live in or if you live in another part of the World, but I am half German and half Hill Billy : ) I grew up two hours south of where my Wife, who is also of German heritage, and she too thinks use different terms than she does. I won’t give you and example, because then you might be able to figure out what Part of the Country I grew up in.
I see how you are framing your argument, but I do not view these two things as being the same, but lesser. I see them as different things.
Perhaps this is why I do not like memes. They often tend to compare two unrelated things as though they are the same, when they are not the same.