Follow-up Question: How did she do this?
How should I know? One thing I donât like about our Catholic faith is how some legends get treated as fact (Veronicaâs veil, for instance). Maybe they are true, and maybe they are not, and I wish the Church would leave it at that,
The reason I asked my question is because there are Traditional Catholics on Twitter who reject the Luminous Mysteries, because it âcame from John Paul II and not from our Blessed Mother.â Which may be true, but when I ask how Mother Mary gave St. Dominic these Prayers, crickets.
Other Traditional Catholics simply reject the Luminous Mysteries out of protest of Vatican II. I asked these individuals if this makes them (small âPâ) protestants. A few of them answered, âNo.â
My goal is not to throw shade, but get individuals to think, rather than simply regurgitate what they have been told to believe about something.
The Holy Rosary is a meditation on the Gospels. And Mary may have given St. Dominic these Prayers (Iâm not claiming she didnât) AND St. John Paul II (who had a great devotion to our Blessed Mother) based the Luminous Mysteries on the same idea, that we are to reflect on the Holy Gospels and Pray with them in mind, hearts, and with our lips.
I do the same thing with Protests who claim that Catholics have added to the Bible. I point out how the early manuscripts of the Gospel of John (one is from the first century and another from the second century if my memory is correct) did not have the story of the Woman caught in adultery, but the one found from the fourth century did included this story. Protestant Bibles include it. Am I to assume that Protestants have added to the Word of God? No, we believe this story to be true, even though it might not have been (for whatever reason) not included originally, though it likely was passed on audibly prior to. I am simply trying to get Protestants to think about what they are claiming and their reasoning for protesting.
Iâm not claiming to have all the answers, but I believe in, âSo then, brothers and sisters, stand firm and hold fast to the teachings we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letterâ â 2 Thessalonians 2:15. This includes the successor of the Apostles.
I agree (as does the Church) that we are not to add to the Scriptures. Like how the Chinese Government was going to come out with their own version of the Bible (Iâm sure removing chunks and making revisions to the Word of God, which is prohibited).
Sorry, I got off topic. My point is that I have no ill-will toward Traditional Catholics who protest the Luminous Mysteries, nor do I have any ill-will towards St. Dominic, our Blessed Mother Mary, nor for big âPâ Protestants. Maybe I shall Pray a Luminous Mystery for each of them ; )
Meditations on the Gospels? The mysteries of light, all of them. The glorious mysteries, only three of them. The assumption and coronation arenât in the Gospels.
P:eace to all,
So true Literalman and we know is everything were written not even the world could contain the books.
John took Mary home from the cross, âEcce Mater tuaâ just as all Disciples do, and was with Mary for perhaps 40 years. John wrote the Book of Revelation and The Gospel According to John and allusions of the Asumption is in Revelation 12:1 describes a woman âclothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head,â
It is a traditional belief in the Catholic Church that the Blessed Virgin Mary appeared to Saint Dominic in 1208 and gave him the prayers and devotion of the Rosary. This tradition is particularly well-supported within the Dominican Order, which St. Dominic founded. The Dominicans have played a central role in promoting the Rosary throughout history.
Even with these points, the tradition of Maryâs revelation to St. Dominic remains a strong belief within the Catholic Church, especially for the Dominicans. It highlights Maryâs role in guiding the Church to fight heresy and spread the Gospel through prayer.
âMy dear Dominic, do you know which weapon the Blessed Trinity has used to reform the world?â
âMy Lady,â replied St. Dominic, âyou know better than I because next to your son Jesus Christ you were the chief instrument of our salvation.â
Our Lady added: âI want you to know that the principal means has been the Angelic Psalter, which is the foundation of the New Testament. That is why, if you want to win these hardened hearts for God, preach my Psalter.â
St. Dominic returned to the Church and rang the bells to call the people of Toulouse and he began preaching to them about the Holy Rosary. In a very short time, a great change was seen in the city: people renounced their bad habits and began living truly Christian lives. It was by these extraordinary means that God wanted to spread the new devotion of the Holy Rosary and make it more widely known. (St. Louis de Montfort, The Secret of the Rosary)
Logically we see Mary returned to earth and confirmed by St Dominic Maryâs co-Redeption as The New Eve through Her Son in the New Adam through The Christ in the New Eve through the salvific process becoming into the Chruch of Christ becoming again immortally glorified incorruptibly transfigured in One Holy Spirit Family One God in being in all generalization.
Luke 12:08
8 âI tell you, whoever publicly acknowledges me before others, the Son of Man will also acknowledge before the angels of God.
Peace always,
Stephen
I chose âI do not knowâ, as I can see most other did also.
I read the book âchampions of the rosaryâ some years ago, and it was a fantastic read. The dominicans was a force in Europe in the 1300s and 1400s, and they did much good for christianity. however, the specifics of the revelation I do not know.
With a tradition so big and varied as the catholic tradition, there is so much to choose from. So one can certainly have a cake and eat it.
blessings, Peter
Valid point. You are not wrong : )
I appreciate your point-of-view. You speak very clearly and elegantly. Glad you are here : )
âthe 150 Hail Marys correspond to the 150 Psalmsâ:
How do they correspond to the Psalms besides in their quantity? For example, I donât see a relationship between Psalms 1 through 10 and the first joyful mystery.
Well, I guess itâs a little late now, since nearly all Catholics today can read, I think. But for those of us not up to memorizing 150 Psalms, I would suggest a different substitute: memorize the first lines of some of them and use them as prayersâfor example, âThe Lord is my shepherdâ and âCreate in me a clean heart, O God.â
I was replying to the idea of a substitute for the psalms, and the rosary as a substitute means not praying the psalms at all. I also was presuming that the rosary as a substitute was especially for people who could not read, and if they could not memorize psalms, they could pray some one-line prayers taken from the psalms. If they could not read, I donât know how far they would get with a breviary. But I thought of another way that people could pray the psalms without reading them. Iâm sure I know the words and music to more than 150 songs, sacred and not. I understand that many, maybe all, psalms were written to be sung. Even for people who could not read, if someone had provided musical versions of the psalms, I suspect that a lot of people could have memorized some entire psalms if not all 150. This is mostly moot nowadays, because, as I mentioned above, nearly all Catholics can read, I think.
There are many other mysteries throughout scripture that we can meditate on that are not canonized by the catholic church, this doesnât mean that we are something doing wrong by meditating on the events in the earthly life of Jesus or important events that he did, for example there are healing mysteries where Jesus heals people, or some other mysteries such as hopeful mysteries even found in the old testament such as the sacrifice of abraham, the passover, the flood, the creation and all of that. Some saints even meditated on other mysteries that were never canonized by the catholic church, St. Bridget of Sweden for example meditated on 6 mysteries every time she prayed the rosary, not 5. Mystery is a general event in scripture that happened by the Hand of God, there arenât only sorrowful, joyful and glorious mysteries, there are marian mysteries, hopeful mysteries, healing mysteries etc. too. Glorious joyful and sorrowful are categorizations of the mysteries compiled by the Church. I personally hate JPII and I donât even believe in his papal authority and furthermore luminous mysteries were originally compiled by a former satanist who was a high ranking satanic priest but even so this doesnât negate the fact that these mysteries did happen by the hand of god and they are in scripture therefore they could be meditated on whether or not the church made them canon so it is irrelevant to reject them just because JPII canonized them or that they were compiled by a former satanist as they could be meditated on as mysteries in the first place without the church canonizing them
Coronation is in the bible. Revelation 12
Peace to all,
Mary appeared with angels, presenting him with a string of beads (the Rosary). I believe.
âMary is said to have presented him with a string of beads and instructed him to preach âher Psalterââa collection of 150 Angelic Salutations (the Hail Mary) modeled after the 150 Psalmsâas a âspiritual weaponâ against heresy.â Google AI
And
âA great and wondrous sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her headâ
Mary preexisted in undefiled intelligence logic before creation was ever created was even created making Mary God from preexistence and Queen of Council and Queen of Heaven, Mother of God and always together with the Father and The Son in One Holy Spirit Family One God in being.
And Mary was with John from the Cross for perhaps 40 years and most likely helped and Authored the Gospel According to John and The Book of Revelation, I believe.
Peace always,
Stephen
The book of Revelation isnât one of the Gospels, but it is canonical, so letâs look at what chapter 12 says. John the Revelator had a vision of âa woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars. Because she was with child, she wailed aloud in pain as she labored to give birthâ (verses 1-2). If the woman in the vision was the Virgin Mary, although her coronation is not mentioned, she must have been crowned when she was pregnant, or even before that. Is that what this mystery tells us? âHer child was caught up to God and to his throneâ (verse 5). The Gospels donât say that the baby Jesus was taken up to heaven. Then the woman âfled into the desertâ (verse 6).
The note about these verses in my New American Bible says that âthe woman symbolizes Godâs people in the Old and New Testament ⌠The Israel of old gave birth to the Messiah.â This makes sense to me. The twelve stars could represent the twelve tribes of Israel. And because John the Revelatorâs vision describes things that are at odds with the Gospels, I agree that these verses do not describe the Virgin Mary and the birth of Jesus but rather the people of God (see, for example, the Gospel ancestry of Jesus) at last, through the action of God and with much pain, giving life to the Messiah.
I suppose that people are free to believe that Mary was crowned Queen of Heaven and Earth sometime before the birth of Jesus, who was taken up to heaven shortly after birth.
If I had been King of Earth when Jesus was born, I would have had some orders for Herod. 
A lot of the Marian dogmas use the woman in Revelation 12 as evidence for them. While it is true that the woman in Revelation 12 could be talking about Israel, the Church or Mary. Itâs also true that Revelations is a heavily symbolic book and symbols can refer to multiple things simultaneously. It doesnât HAVE to be one or the other⌠all three could be true, in different ways.
We know that the child being referred to in Revelation 12 is unambiguously Jesus (the child to rule all nations with a rod of iron). And we know that the dragon is specifically mentioned as being âthat ancient serpentâ (begging one to recall the story in Genesis 3). In the story the dragon makes war with the woman âŚ. But fails. Again ⌠harkening back to Genesis 3 where it states:
âI will enmity between you (the Serpent) and the woman.
Between your seed and her seed.
You shall bruise his heel but he shall crush your head.â
Who is the âseed of the womanâ âŚ? Well we know that seeds donât come from women ⌠that language of genealogy nearly always fall on men. But not this case.
The woman in this case is Mary. The seed that crushes the serpent is Jesus. And the serpent is Satan. Knowing the identities of these figures one can just as well say:
âI will put enmity between Satan and Mary.
Between Satanâs seed and Maryâs seed.
You shall bruise his heel but he shall crush your head.â
The parallels in Genesis 3 and Revelation 12 are striking.
Another thing to consider about the chapter of Revelation 12. There are four characters in the book:
The Woman
The Child
The Dragon
Michael the Archangel.
We know unambiguously the identities of three of these: the child is Jesus (an individual), the dragon is Satan (an individual), Michael is an Archangel (an individual) âŚâŚ. And then we have this Woman. While there are certainly multiple layers of meaning going on in this chapter, the rules of logic and consistency would seem to put a heavier emphasis on the woman ALSO being and individual in this passage and not merely a symbol for a crowd, or a group.
Itâs not only Revelation, but the understanding that Mary is the New Ark of the Covenant, as some of the Early Church Fathers pointed out. And she is the New Eve. And knowing what we do about the Ark of the Old Covenant and the original Eve, we can draw conclusions about the New Ark and the New Eve.
We also must understand that it was God who made Mary Holy (full of grace) and her cooperation with His grace; and obedience to the Father (where Eve was disobedient to the Father); that Mary was Holy.
God did not put enmity between the Woman and her Son (Jesus). Mary is on team Jesus. God did however put enmity between the Woman and her seed and the serpent and his offspring (Genesis 3:15). Where Eve and Adam brought sin and death into this world, Mary and Jesus brought reconciliation & life into our world (glory to God)!
If you do not accept the Marian dogmas, it does not change my life one way or the other, but it does make me sad how many Protestants fail to see what God has done in Mary and how she is a sign of what God has done, is doing, and may do in our lives as members of His body (the church).
I have recently been studying the different theologies (Covenantal theology vs. Dispensationalism and the sub-theologies within each of these).
Catholic Christians nether believe in a Replacement theology nor a bi-Covenant theology. We believe that God did not Promise the Jewish people land, but rather a savior (Jesus Christ). Jesus is the fulfillment of the Promises of God to the Israelites. And He grafted into this New Covenant Gentiles as well as Jews. So going with a plant analogy, there is only one shoot, not two (dual-Covanentalism). God did not get rid of the old shoot and replace it with a new one either (replacement theology).
We believe
And when the new Testament talks about Israel, it sometimes is referring to the Old Covenant (shoot before God grafted in non-Jews); other times it is referring to Jewish leaders (who follow the law, but lack faith), and sometimes it is referring to the church of the New Covenant (the shoot after grafting in non-Jews). What it is not talking about is the political state of Israel formed in 1948.
As Catholic Christians, we should not hate Jewish individuals who do not recognize Jesus as the fulfillment of Godâs Promises. There will come a time when many will convert (at the end of time). And we should Pray for Orthodox Jews, Secular Athirst Jews, Ethnic Jews, Reformed Jews, Honorary Jews, and Messianic Jews, that they may fully come into the fullness of Faith, and one day enter into the new Jerusalem (Heaven).
Can Jews be saved? We believe, yes, however, it is out of Godâs grace, because of their ignorance that they may be saved. But, this does not mean that all Jewish individuals will be saved. And they wonât be saved because they follow the laws of the Old Covenant (for this would be dual-Covenant theology, which we do not believe in).
I plan to make a post about this in a few weeks as I am still studying the topic, but this is my current understanding on the topic.
Anytime ââThe Womanââ is mentioned in the bible, it refers to Mary. Every single time. Jesus herself calls her ââThe Womanââ, to mean the New Eve. It is not israel of old or anything else. It is Mary.
âAnd I will cause hostility between you and the woman, and between your offspring and her offspringâ is a famous line from Genesis 3:15 in the Bible, spoken by God to the serpent after Adam and Eve disobeyed Him by eating forbidden fruit.
Peace to all,
The weight of the Cross, the wait of the cross, âIt is finished.â
From the Immaculate Conception, Mary in the New Eve Virgin born for Jesus in the New Adam becomes the Christ from Sacrifice through Penance forgiven in all mankind becoming again for all Creation in One Holy Spirit Family One God in being.
Mary is Co-Redemptive for all becoming into the Catholic Church Baptized Brothers and Sisters in all transformed becoming immortality through the Power of the Incorrutible Holy Spirit Family becoming One Body through the New Eve.
And foe the Power of The Incorruptible Holy Spirit in the New Adam through the New Eve for Jesus becoming through the Christ for all mankind becoming forgiven from Sacrifice through Penance we become all glorified becoming Sons and Daughters of God becoming again for all Creation in One Holy Spirit Family One God in being, OMNiLogically, I believe.
So true, Cade_One, God was speaking to the Serpant, and the heels of The Christ are bruised from the weight of the Cross piercing the earth, the chasm of death bruising His Heels from the nails in His feet and the weight of the Cross
Peace always,
Stephen
From Genesis (âThe woman saw that the tree was good for food, pleasing to the eyes, and desirable for gaining wisdom. So she took some of the fruit and ate it âŚâ [Gen. 3":6]) to Revelation (âThe woman you saw is the great city which has sovereignty over the kings of the earthâ [Rev. 17:18]) âthe womanâ is the Virgin Mary? I donât think so.
