The Catholic Catechism does call Mary “the new Eve, the true ‘Mother of all the living.’" It doesn’t really explain this except to say that Eve was tempted and sinned. So I take this to imply that Mary was tempted (why not? Jesus was) but did not sin. I believe that as the true mother of all the living, Mary prays for us and helps us. We pray for each other and help each other too. We can ask for our sins and others’ sins to be forgiven. But only priests have Christ’s authority to forgive sins, so I don’t see how anybody else can be a mediator for forgiveness of sins. We and Mary are intercessors, but not mediators like Jesus and not redeemers.
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This is coming from one individual who holds views contrary to what the Catholic Christian Church teaches. Had this individual lived and was well-known to the Early Church Councils, they would have said, “Let him be anathema.”
There would be no incarnation without Mary’s obedience to God and her co-operation with His grace.
She was made holy and filled with grace by God (for she is the “Ark of the New Covenant”).
Again, this was by one individual. And I responded that I do not believe anyone who holds your view is “a Satanist” (maybe not as directly as I should have, but I try to be respectful to everyone here).
This is great! I think this is true of most good Christians. We are reminded of our Baptismal vows every time we dip our fingers in the holy-water font when we enter/leave Church. And explicitly renew these vows again during the Easter Liturgy.
I reject Satan!
And all his works and empty promises.
I believe in God, the Father Almighty, creator of heaven and earth!
I believe in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord, who was born of the Virgin Mary, was crucified, died, and was buried, rose from the dead, and is now seated at the right hand of the Father!
I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy Catholic church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and life everlasting!
God, the all-powerful Father of our Lord Jesus Christ has given us a new birth by water and the Holy Spirit, and forgiven all our sins. May He also keep us faithful to our Lord Jesus Christ for ever and ever.
Amen! ♱
I appreciate you being here. I am sorry that some have not been charitable towards you. I think you definitely add to the conversation here. Don’t take everything that individuals say here personal. Ultimately, it is all about Christ. These disagreements and slanderings, each will one day have to answer for to God.
A few thoughts: First, what do you believe is meant by mediator between God? Do you believe this is referring to Prayer (a Protestant interpretation) or Salvation (a Catholic/Orthodox interpretation)?
Second, we do not believe that Mary can redeem souls. This is not what Co-redemptrix means. This is what Protestants (and some ignorant Catholics) think it means. If you believe this is what was ever meant by this term when used by the Popes and Fathers, then you are either listening to Protestants who assume what we mean or are ignorant of what the Church means by this term.
The Church has not changed her teaching on this (we agree). Where you and I disagree (and perhaps Pope Leo too) is that former Popes have used these terms and Early Church Fathers have described these teachings (without using these terms explicitly). You are correct that these terms are not found in decrees or dogmas. So, you can make the argument that it is not official teaching if your definition of “official teaching” is only that which has been defined as dogma. And that is a valid definition, but not what I mean when I speak of “Church teaching.”
However, you have shown that your definition of these terms is not what those who used/described them (and I don’t mean on this forum, but rather former Popes & Patristics) have taught. You are interpreting these terms as Protestant and ignorant Catholic Christians do.
I have not read the new document yet, so I cannot respond to what you claim Leo says. Can you post a link to the actual document (and, please, not to an article telling us what it says)?
We also have to understand that Vatican II cares more about ecumenicalism, which some Catholic Christians see as a watering down of the Faith to become more Protestant. Meanwhile the Eastern Orthodox Church is doing the opposite. They are standing firm in the Apostolic Faith and saying, if you want the Christian Faith as the Apostles taught, then join us, but if you want modernity, then remain Protestant or “join the Catholics.”
So, what will happen is, the Orthodox Church will become more relevant and the Catholic Church will become less relevant as she becomes less catholic/orthodox and more protestant/worldly.
So, why am I Catholic and not Orthodox? That is a conversation for another thread.
Thank you : )
Fair enough. The answer is yes, about a handful of Popes have used either of these terms in dispute.
I know that it is not what you are referring to, which is part of the disconnect. Mary as the “New Eve” relates to Mary as Co-redemptrix. If you are interested in reading what the Early Church Fathers taught on this subject, check out the writings of Justin Martyr, St. Irenaeus of Lyons, Cyprian, and St. Ambrose; all described Mary as the New Eve.
Why does it matter? Because if you do not understand this teaching, then you do not understand what is meant by Mary as Co-redemptrix.
Are you sure that you are not Protestant? I am not saying that Catholic Christians must Pray the Rosary, but The Rosary is a reflection on Jesus and the Holy Gospels.
I do not disagree with you here. You define “teaching of the Church” as only being what has been officially defined as dogma (and that’s fine), whereas I define “Church teaching” as being the entire deposit of Faith (including what was taught in Sacred Scripture, the writings of the Early Church Fathers, and the Articles of Faith.
Again, please link to this document. I would love to read it for myself and then I will share my thoughts about it.
Marianist? This sounds like how some Protestants used to call Catholic Christians Papists. Catholic Christians honor Mary and you used a derogatory term to describe us. Catholic Christians believe in the primacy of Peter and the office of which Jesus bestowed upon him and that which was passed on to his successors (not dissimilar to Isaiah 22:22), but some Protestants use a derogatory term to describe us.
You and I agree that some Catholic Christians honor Mary a little too hard, if I’m being frank. And some Catholic Christians and most Protestants do not honor Mary enough. And a few put her on the same level as the serpent, which is discussing.
God bless
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That is my understanding of the Catholic teaching. Mary can be an intercessor, like other saints, this means we can ask them to pray for us. Priests can forgive our sins, yes, and salvation comes only through Jesus Christ
Thank you for your input and may Gods peace be with you
Ok you mentioned a lot of things so I’m going to address some of them.
First of all it is interesting how the baptismal vows begin with the rejection of Satan. I love that. It is mentioned before anything else and shows how important it is. For me I first saw the works of Satan in my life and in the world, when I was an atheist, that led me to search for God. Some people think that the evil one is not real that his just a metaphor or something, but he is real, very real indeed. And I’m always reminding myself to wear the armour of God in order to protect myself from his evil schemes.
I myself have not read the document that is rejecting these Marian titles, I have just heard many people talk about it. I’m sure you can find it if you search.
I don’t use the term Marianist in a derogatory manner, I’m just using it to distinguish between the people that follow Catholic teachings and the people that have beliefs of Mary that are not part of the Catholic teachings.
I’m not a protestant, that’s going a bit far. People told me that I wasn’t a Catholic because I didn’t believe in salvation through Mary, they called me a prodestant which i didn’t even know what it meant at the time. And so for many years I didn’t consider myself to be Catholic even though I was raised as one. It’s only now that I’m realising that I am actually more Catholic than those Marianists (non-derogatory, simply referring to those who believe in salvation through Mary) as the church actually teaches what I believed all along, salvation through Christ only.
Sorry if I missed something but thanks for your input and may Gods peace be with you.
First, I want to thank you for sharing a bit about your story. Praise God for all that He has done in your life! I genuinely mean this.
Second, what those Catholics told your was wrong.
The reason that I think you sound Protestant is because of your emphasis on alone. Calvinists (along with some other so-called Reformed denominations) also put emphasis on the word alone, with their modern theogony of the The 5 Solas—Sola Scriptura, Sola Fide, Sola Gratia, Solus Christus, and Soli Deo Gloria.
Catholic/Orthodox Christians put emphasis on Christ first. And just as Adam was responsible for his sin, Eve played a part. Jesus is the Sacrificial Lamb that God has provided and is our Mediator & Salvation. Mary also played a part in the redemption of the world. By God’s grace she was made holy (“full of grace”) and she cooperated with God’s grace. She became the Ark of the New Covenant. The New Eve. The Theotokos. To deny this, is to deny a part of the Gospel. The word alone is a Protestant trend and they have slapped it onto a lot of things to create a reformed Gospel.
I didn’t know that. Maybe I’d sound less like like a protestant if I used the word “only” instead. Like “only Jesus can save us”
I found the papal document on Marian titles from Nov. 2025. I haven’t read it all yet, but it seems clear and sensible to me. Here’s a link:
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That’s the document that I’ve heard so many people talk about, the one i was referring to. Thanks for adding a link to it.
God bless
Thank you for finding it. I will make time to read it : )
The bottom line is that Mary has nothing to do with the salvation of our souls. Only Jesus can save us. The Vatican confirms this and as Catholics we should acknowledge this
My grandmother when she was still here on this Earth, had a very big devotion to Mary. She always asked for Mary to intercede for her, and my grandmother was one of the most holiest souls I know. Stephen, keep being you. The intelligence you exhibit is beautiful. If you’re not getting into Heaven, then I know I’m not, because my soul doesn’t have the purity yours does. Please write books. People need new viewpoints, cause we as huemans were not made to be static. We were made to evolve and transform. Write some books Stephen, tell the world that you don’t have to be weighed down by dogma.
I wish you lived nearby, I’d listen to you everyday.
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Hahahaha you just crack me up now with your theories
A Mother’s love, or really a woman’s love in general, should never be downplayed. I remember I did up a post about how the Divine Masculine is trying to snuff out the Divine Feminine. We need to not only bring back softness to our hyper masculine society, but we need to see softness and gentleness as a strength again!
Every year, we continue to distance ourselves and masculine traits continue to receive more attention. Let’s let the next 20 years be a time where the Divine Feminine comes into her power! It’s important now, more than ever, to have Mary our Cosmic Mother to blanket the world with her love. This past Valentine’s day (which as of the time of me typing this is 12:53 a.m. on February 15th), let us remember that a woman’s love is very much needed during these times. Times are only continuing to get tough, we need the love of a Mother and what better way to celebrate that love, than from the Goddess Mary herself. A Mother for all people.
Thank you Stephen for reminding the hueman race of the values that are eroding from our society.
Pope Leo seems like a very nice man. I don’t really keep up with the different Popes anymore, but I dunno, from what I’ve read so far he sounds pretty nice.
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Mary is so beautiful in that picture Stephen. How can you be against a Mother who’s so loving???
Well…I know we just need a Mother’s love in society. Cause, it’s gone…society feels like a desert, the loving Mother provides the water needed to survive in the expanse of emptiness.
No one is disputing that mothers are important to society. I’m just conveying the facts.
Fact 1- Mary is not God, she is not divine in any way, according to the Vatican.
Fact 2- Mary has nothing to do with the salvation of our souls, only Jesus can save us, according to the Vatican.
This document by Pope Leo acknowledges this. Any belief contrary to these are not Catholic beliefs, they are heresies against the RCC.
Your beliefs on these matters are contrary to the Vatican’s. They don’t refer to Mary as God nor do they refer to Mary as being a saviour for our souls.
I’m not arguing your omnilogic beliefs just the teachings of the Roman Catholic Church.
The Church does not say that Mary is God nor does it say that she can save our souls.
I was just responding to Stephen, not to you. And, guess what? The Bible isn’t entirely accurate either, nor is the Church. Not that you’d innerstand cause you probably don’t….
So, because the Vatican said she is not divine in any way, you believe it? These people lived years ago, how do you know? And how do you know what is being taught to you doesn’t have some false claims? Think about it for a second…do you actually believe that The Vatican has the answers? You realize it was Rome that killed Jesus right? And we’re supposed to take Rome’s word for it? Sorry, I don’t buy it…not even for a second….
My grandmother had a huge devotion to Mary and everyone in this town loved this woman. My grandmother had a legacy in this town, and I have some pretty die hard Catholics who live here. I don’t see the problem…if a person wants to pray to Mary, who cares? It’s not like someone’s devotion to Mary is going to affect your soul’s destination after this life anyways….
Well, grab your torch and pitchforks I guess, cause you have a heretic here among you: Me. If trusting no one is heretical and if thinking that there was some ulterior motive going on when the Church was being founded and established, and the fact that I don’t blindly follow nor agree with all 40 authors of the current Bible makes me “Satanic” or “Demonic” than so be it. I’m sorry but I am not going to trust 40 people…it’s just not going to happen. I’m not going to trust what is being done in Rome of all places. If people think that Rome actually cares about people, you are so gullible, it’s not even funny. I’m sorry, Rome wanted Jesus dead, they didn’t care about Jesus. When Jesus was alive, they wanted that man dead because Jesus was the only person back then that called out the religious leaders on their absolute hypocrisy and ridiculousness. There’s a reason why in The Bible, it doesn’t say anywhere that you need to be a part of any religion to be saved. And that’s because Jesus knew, well in advance, how bad religion can get. I don’t even think Jesus wanted nor desired a religion to be in his name, because he knew how corrupt and backhanded religion can get.
I will be as heretical as I want to be, because there’s a lot of little things in this religion that doesn’t line up. I’m not saying religion can’t help anyone, but what I am saying is people would do well to question popular narratives, including religious ones. From the research I’ve done, Gnosticism seems to know what’s going on. Your religion is a business, and operates exactly like one, including having corrupt practices and corruption within the Church. I’d rather be called a heretic than being considered a part of an organization that protects pedophiles. I’m not saying everyone in the Church is bad, but there are some (especially in the hierarchy) I’d severely question, cause they’re not telling you everything. Look up Vatican Secret Archives….they’re hiding things from you. God is loving and would want you to know the truth, well….the Church prides itself on being the fullness of the truth. Well, if that’s the case, what’s the point in hiding anything from your followers? If you loved someone, you wouldn’t hide anything from a person you loved right? Cause hiding things shatters trust in a relationship, it did with me in my relationship to the Church when I was still a Catholic.
It just amazes me how people will follow others just because they have some impressive title like “Pope” or “Priest.” Do the research yourself, cause believe me, putting your faith in a lot of people will backfire on you. It did with me. Be careful who you trust and who you follow.