"How can someone forgive someone like that?"

Catholic Living Prayer Intentions
1

I did a Bible Study on a small portion of the “Our Father” with one of my Protestant friends over on the YouVersion Bible App (which I have been enjoying).

This was my deep-dive reflection on the topic of Forgiveness. Thought I would share.

This Prayer that Jesus taught us to pray, “…forgive us our trespasses (or debts) as we forgive those who trespass against us,” is a Prayer of petition.

Jesus teaches us that it is okay to pray for ourselves, but also to pray for others.

Before we receive God’s grace to forgive others, we must first recognize that we are sinners.

St. John the Apostle said, “If we say we are without sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we acknowledge our sins, He is faithful and just and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from every wrongdoing. If we say we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.” (1 John 1:8-10)

This petition mirrors the tax collector’s Prayer in Jesus’ parable, in Luke 18:13, “O God, be merciful to me a sinner!”

In The Catechism, paragraph 2839, it points out that when we sin, we turn away from God, but in this petition, we return to Him, “like the prodigal son.”

At every Sacred Liturgy there is a call to forgive. It is commonly referred to as “the sign of peace,” but would be more appropriately renamed (in my opinion)

“When you stand to Pray, forgive anyone against whom you have a grievance, so that your heavenly Father may in turn forgive you your transgressions.” — Mark 11:25

“All bitterness, fury, anger, shouting, and reviling must be removed from you, along with all malice. Be kind to one another, compassionate, forgiving one another as God has forgiven you in Christ.” — Ephesians 4:31-32

We are also called to forgive our enemies (Matthew 5:43–44).

Often, when someone has done something beyond terrible (or what some define as “unforgivable”) to another human being, we may often think, “How can someone forgive someone like that?”

The Catechism says that this ability to forgive the most heinous offenses is found “in the depths of the heart.”

“It is not in our power not to feel or to forget an offense; but the heart that offers itself to the Holy Spirit turns injury to compassion and purifies the memory in transforming the hurt into intercession.” — CCC 2843

“Our Father, forgive us our trespasses (for I am a sinner), as we forgive those who trespass against us (from the depth of my heart).” Amen ♱

1 Like
2

Excellent good and Faithful servant. Keep up the good work. And Thanks!

3

And it seems to me really hard to forgive someone who isn’t sorry, yet Jesus asked the Father to forgive the soldiers who were crucifying Him, and I don’t suppose that they were sorry.

3 Likes
4

This is a great point!

And it is hard to forgive someone who keeps sinning against us over and over (as we do to God). But, Jesus says to forgive 70 times seven (Matthew 18:21-22).

Now this does not mean that we should trust an individual who has wronged us multiple times.

1 Like
5

Agree. One of the most difficult things to do is to forgive those who have wronged us. At times it is necessary to pray to God for the strength to forgive.

2 Likes
6

Jesus, taught many things. One of the many things that he taught, was forgiveness. Out of love for God, and our fellow person, through charity, forgiveness is endless. There are times when forgiveness seems seems hard or difficult to do. We need the strength to overcome our own pride to forgive.
There are times, especially when those nearest to us, commit some wrong. That is when we feel the most hurt. With that in mind, how would God feel when we fall into sin time and again. And yet, we are the first to turn to God to ask for forgiveness. So in turn, I ask God to give me the strength to overcome my own weakness, so that I can forgive others, just as I wish to be forgiven myself.

1 Like
7

I’ve been thinking more about the act of forgiving those who aren’t sorry. The fact that Jesus asked for forgiveness for the soldiers who were killing him suggests that the Father might not have forgiven them unless Jesus asked Him to. For us, I think it is better to forgive even those who are not sorry. It releases them and us from our unforgiveness. For those who repent, there is unlimited forgiveness with God. One of my pastors when I lived in Virginia said that Judas would have been forgiven if he had repented; it would even have been the subject of famous paintings: “The Repentance of Judas,” with Judas kneeling at the cross an Christ forgiving him.

1 Like
8

From a personal perspective. My own understanding, if somebody sins. And the action of that sin is against me. Then I would forgive that person. If the person repents, or fails to repent. Before or after the forgiveness, then I would presume, that would be for God as judge to decide the outcome for the particular person, or persons.

9

Forgiveness is about healing yourself it’s not about the other person if you make it about them your focus is in the wrong place.The goal is to get the black poison out of you not stew on it or you have done nothing.Its about what’s going on inside you and changing it to the better.Its looking inwards not outwards.Its about healing yourself.

Jesus told his deciples they must forgive and what did they reply “Please lord give us more faith!”

10

Genuine forgiveness, is an act of humility on the part of the person forgiving. It is pride, that stops a person forgiving.

1 Like
11

Correct: we mustn’t “play god” . "Forgive US we forgive everyone, for everything is what we commit to in the Lords Prayer… Then do forgive and allow God to be GOD.

12

I find myself unable to forgive an abusive relative who died without acknowledging, much less apologizing for, his abusive nature and actions. I have been reliving this abuse in my mind every day for over 60 years. Like everyone else, he had good points and bad, but abusing animals and toddlers for his pleasure is a bridge too far for me. God forgive me.

13

Hi Rob. Welcome to the forum. That is tough. Ask God to help you forgive. If this guy abused animals and toddlers, my suspicion is that he himself might have been abused growing up or around someone who was abusive (again, not excusing his actions, but trying to understand).

We usually fall one of three ways. We either become what was done to us (and continue the viscous cycle); recognize the wrongs that were done to us and move on from it (not letting it define who we are); or we let wat was done to us break us.

And maybe all three at different phases of our life. The key is to allow God to heal us and to ask God to heal the one who abused (even if they are no longer alive, for God works outside of space & time). Start here and see how God works it out. And know that you are in my Prayers.

14

Thank you Brother. I’ll try

1 Like
15

Thank you Cade for this such thoughtful subject. I will reflect upon it as follows:

The heart that is forgetful of God and our insignificance before God, is afflicted proportionately with the desire to be God. He wants to be adored by everyone, served by everyone, praised by everyone. He wants to be the most wealthy, the most powerful, the most intelligent…when in fact God is the most of these things. When we are close to God, our humility increases. And when we are away from God, we show that we want God’s position for ourselves. This is called envy. This is the root of sinfulness. From this disposition comes world-wide imperialism that is the history of life on planet earth. Also slavery. Also greed, and exploitation. Also wars. It all comes from the desire to be #1. And this desire places us all in competition and avarice.

Therefore we feel hurt and angered when the actions and attitudes of others puts a dent in our false pride. “I am such a great person. How dare you treat me in that way.” So this is our affliction. The more we come close to God, the more we feel tiny and insignificant.

Another angle of vision is that “not a blade of grass moves except the this is the will of the Lord.” This means that God in the heart of everyone and the prime mover. Just as we pray that God enters our hearts and use us as his instrument (as Saint Francis prays), so also God is in everyone’s heart moving them according to their desire to surender unto Him, or to try to be #1 in this world. Doesn’t Jesus say, “Turn the other cheek”? How is this done? If we understand that God is ultimately in control of all of our actions and the actions of others, we can receive that slap as a gift from God.

In a sense we are all like God’s puppets. But at the same time we have free will. Our free will enables us to draw closer to God so that we become Godly by His grace, or we can remain aloof from God, and be under the control of unGodly impulse.

Where does ungodly impulse come from? Is there anything in creation that is not under God’s control? If the “Devil” exists, can he have arisen as something that God didn’t create? The Devil exists, as an expression of our misuse of our free will. If we misuse our free will, the Devil takes charge of us. If we use our free will rightly by surrendering to God, the Devil cannot touch us.

A person who is devoted to God naturally thinks himself to be more deserving of misfortune. He accepts the slap on his cheek as coming from God. And he feels boundless compassion for others. He knows that “sewing and reaping” goes on in this world. He knows that he is reaping his reward. And he also knows that the wrong-doers will also reap their reward. But because he is close to the Lord, he is able to say, “Forgive them Lord, for they know not what they are doing.” He has compassion, because he knows that these afflictors, cannot be happy doing what they are doing, and also that they will reap punishment for their activities. And, most importantly, he can forgive them because their wrong-doings are very superficial to his life. Why? because his heart, being close to God, is filled with the peace and fulfillment that only God can provide. This peace and fulfillment makes him indifferent to the trespasses of others. He only feels sorry for them.

“Do unto to others as you would have them do unto you.” This is not just a nice sentiment. This is because “sewing and reaping” is the law of this world. It is also a warning to all of us.

“And forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us.” Let us examine this prayer, this request. There is only one trespass. And that is to turn our hearts away from God. This one trespass enables all manner to trespasses to enter our hearts. But proportionately, as we are close to God, we are able to forgive the trespasses of others. And as we are close to God, we are not trespassing in ways that require God’s forgiveness. In other words, as much as we are close to God, our misuse of free will and the trespass that ensues is forgiven, and we are empowered to forgive others their tier trespasses. Our trespass is forgiven as much as we are able to forgive the trespass of others. Because…we cannot forgive others, unless our trespass against God is removed from our hearts. If we want false glory for ourselves, we cannot forgive others. And as we give the glory to God, we are given the understanding that God is in control, and that everything that is going on in this world is perfect. In this frame of mind, we can turn the other cheek. These are some thoughts that come to mind.

16

Interesting, Rob…because I have similar issues. However scripture tells us that there is a law of this world. I am not referring to the law of gravity. or Achemedes principle, or Boyle’s Law, or the observations of so many physical scientists. I am referring to the law of “sewing and reaping” referred to those of eastern orthodoxy as the “law of karma”. “What goes around, comes around.” This is God’s way of teaching us, that there is a good reason to “do unto there’s as you would have them do unto you.”

Of course, you may not recall having done hurtful things against others. And I know that Catholics do not subscribe to the theory of reincarnation. But we do know that the soul is eternal. Eternal means no beginning and no end. So where were we before entering this present material body? There is one quote in the Bible wherein God says, “Before you were in your mother’s womb, I knew you.”

God is not alone. He is surrounded by the heavenly hosts. But we are down here, exiled from the “Garden of Eden”. I don’t believe that garden was ever on planet earth. The Garden of Eden is the spiritual kingdom. And we are down here. Material life is God’s reform school, for wayward souls. Otherwise why would God, who is inconceivably kind and loving place us here? We are here to learn to surrender our hearts to God, instead of trying to be the most important person we can, trying to be God. We are out of alignment. We have it backwards. We are here for our reorientation. And Jesus is our therapist. He is telling us that we have it backwards, and he is inviting us to “accept the yoke” that he gladly accepts, as loving servant of God, rather than master of all we can survey.

You know , because of your faith, that the wrong-doer that you remember is going to pay for his every wrong-doing, and may be very well paying for it as we speak. If you begin to pray for him every time you remember his wrong-doings, having compassion for the suffering that he has created for himself, this may gradually enable you to forgive him for his ignorance. Everything we do in this world is because of a desire to be happy. Taking pleasure in the pain of others is a perverted desire for happiness that can only bring us pain in return. This is dysfunctional. Whereas taking pleasure in the happiness of others is in line with God’s desire for how we should live.

We are all sinners. We are all self-centered. We are all forgetful of God’s presence, and that fact that he provides the air we breathe, the water we drink and the food we eat. We are all in rehab. we are in God’s reform school. We have to take responsibility for the lives we are presently living. “Not a blade of grass moves moves except by the will of the Lord.” We have to accept that we are receiving what God has prescribed for us as part of our rehabilitation. I know it’s not easy. I have the same challenges. I’m just trying to share with you my better thoughts.

17

Peter, I am sure I have done many bad things. But I wasn’t the abused child. I was a witness. I can’t imagine what my two year old brother did to suffer the karma of having a Sherman Williams paint stick broken over him by an adult male who objected to his crying too much. And of course, he was crying because he was being beaten. So he was beaten some more. And this was just one of many such episodes of abuse he suffered as a toddler. He could barely walk at the time and had visible bruises. But maybe he did something in a past life, I take it is your point. That’s no explanation or justification. Please think more carefully before you sermonize further on this subject.

18

Hi Rob, Seems I have rubbed you the wrong way by presenting my cosmology. Jesus talks of sewing and reaping. But I know that Catholics don’t subscribe to the concept of reincarnation.

In any case your last statement carries a flavor of resentment:

" Please think more carefully before you sermonize further on this subject."

I do not mean to be offensive. I’m just trying to make sense out of the trials and tribulations that we go through in this life we experience here on planet earth.

I believe that Catholics embrace the Biblical understanding that:

“Not a blade of grass moves except by the will of the Lord.”

The saying “Not a blade of grasss…” highlights the concept of God’s omnipresence and control over all aspects of creation. It suggests that even the smallest and most insignificant things in the natural world are ultimately directed by a divine force.

Of course I don’t know if you accept scripture. I am only taking that for granted. But the question that arises, if we accept that God is in total control, is, “Why would God allow bad things to happen to good, or innocent people?”

Surely this is also the basis of the teachings of Jesus, in which he tells us to “turn the other cheek.” One can only do this if he has faith that ultimately the one striking my cheek is God Himself. And therefore he offers God the other cheek to strike as well. It’s a question of faith. And of course those who don’t have this kind of faith sometimes become inclined to walk away from their religious convictions.

This walking away happens when families send their sons to war, and the son doesn’t come home, inspite of their prayers. Similarly, the Jewish people who went through the Nazi Holocaust…many of them lost their faith.

So the question arises: "Is the function of our relationship with God all about approaching Him, as we would approach Amazon.com, for enhancing our facilities of material enjoyment…and then walkking away when it appears that God is not delivering?

Or, is it that we try to follow the example of Jesus, who said, “Not my will, but Thy will be done.”, even when he was to be nailed to a cross?

I don’t have all the answers. I’m simply a person who was raised with no religion, and have come in touch with spiritual teachings at the age of 25. Faith seems to grow quite gradually (at least in my case). Of course there’s two kinds of faith. One is blind faith, and the other is faith based on realization.

Faith based on realization is faith that is based on a living sense of reciprocation of love with God or His son. When that process begins, one’s ability to tolerate the hardships of life increases. We see this in the lives of the saints, who from our perspective led lives of severe austerity. But from their point of view, they were not being austere. They simply didn’t care about bodily comforts…because the experience of reciprocation of love with God filled them with spiritual bliss…an experience that rendered their so-called hardships to be experienced as insignificant.

But when you come to a site like this, you’re not going to a psychologist. You’re putting questions forward to be discussed with other people who are trying to live their lives according the concepts of scripture. So when you put forward questions like you have, they’re going to answer you according to their understanding of scripture. It’s not their answer. It’s the answer that the Bible provides.

Either you want spiritual answers or you don’t. And that’s your eternal freedom. But you are the one who put the question forward in this assembly of believers. And if your reaction to their well-intended response is to say, “Keep your sermon to yourself.”, maybe you’re in the wrong place.

I think the book of Job in the Bible addresses this question. The man was so pious, and yet his life was torn to pieces. I think I’ll take a look at that section again.

One can be forced to do things. But no one can force us to accept that God doesn’t make mistakes. That’s our individual freedom. The presumption of spiritual teachings is that we have a lot to learn. That’s why God sends His Son to walk among us. Jesus even addressed his intimate disciples, “Oh, ye of little faith…”. I guess the only answer to your question is to be obtained in coming closer to God. That’s what this life is all about. I’m just a beginner myself.