Faith without works / Works without Faith is dead?

Works of men without faith is dead.

  • True
  • False
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Faith without works is also dead.

  • True
  • False
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Holiness is Christ working in us.

  • True
  • False
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Faith (trust) + Grace (action) = Fruit (love re-produced).

  • True
  • False
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A Covenantal relationship is a deeper relationship with Christ. You need more than just a relationship with Christ.

  • True
  • False
0 voters

Baptism and Holy Eucharist (among the other Sacraments) are works of Christ and His bride, the church (and not merely “works of men” as some Protestants claim).

  • True
  • False
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“Faith washout”? Faith washout works for me. :wink:

Not to contradict St. James who wrote the epistle (didn’t we recently have the feast day of James the Apostle? Hey, whoever names the feast days, there were two apostles named James!), I will consider the question with the word “useless” instead of “dead,” because if someone comes to faith, maybe not all good works up to that point are dead (like the skunk in the middle of the road, stinking to high heaven, which seems like an appropriate musical reference here). I think that for someone who turns to Him, God might credit the good works of an entire lifetime, even if some were done without faith.

And there’s the judgment in the Gospel according to the things people have done. God credited Abraham’s faith as an act of righteousness. Might God also credit acts of charity as faith? This wouldn’t be works without faith in the usual sense. But sometimes when someone I know dies who seemed to have little faith, I will pray, “Please remember all the good this person did for me.” The answer might be no, but I can ask.

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This is a very interesting topic. My father was a very “nice” man. Very moral. Very kind. But he was an atheist. Now…..when the Jewish clergy asked Jesus what the most important rule of spiritual life is, Jesus told them that he didn’t come to change or delete any of their rules. All the rules, he said, are good. But, he said, the rule of rules is to love God with all of our heart.

There is a difference between love and obedience. Most religious people are more concerned with obedience……because they don’t know what love of God is. They know what love of their children is, or what love of their wife is…….but love of God?

But when Jesus was answering the question of the Jewish clergy, he was making a distinction between love and obedience. He was indicating, by his answer, that keeping rules is obedience…….and that love is another matter. Of course, if we truly love someone, being faithful to their desires and expectations becomes easier. This was demonstrated by Jesus when he said, “Not my will, but Thy will be done.” He was saying, “I am putting all of my desires aside. All I want is to align myself with Your desires.” This is not about being a good boy so that one can receive a reward. This is the natural inclination of real love. And this is what Jesus is teaching, in his preaching, and by his example.

So what is the difference between love and obedience? Or, what is the different result of both? Well, scripture talks about “sewing and reaping”, and “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.” Why? Because this God’s law. This is how things work in God’s creation. No one gets away with anything. We have moral rules…….because if we follow them, we reap the benefits. This is the concept of sewing and reaping. When we sew a seed in the earth, we don’t get the fruit immediately…….but as the man in the street says, “What goes around comes around.” In other words, we’re here, in this material dimension, the material creation, to learn what is our most positive orientation. And if we don’t have love of God……yet, at least let us be obedient, and see that our lives become blessed in so many ways. Our hearts become blessed by being pious. And our practical endeavors become blessed as well. And the benefit of being pious, is that the heart becomes progressively softened. The kinder we become to each other, the more we begin to enjoy it. And this is the beginning of being a loving person. We have the same relationship with God. The more we keep His rules, the more we become able to do as Jesus instructs……..to love God with all of our heart. We are in training. We are in rehab……from being self-centered, to being God-centered. “Not my will, but Thy will.”

So the answer is (at least for me), that works without faith, will not bring us immediately closer to God, but it’s a step in the right direction. And faith without works, could be an indication that our faith is not very strong. Or perhaps, that although we have faith, we tend to be forgetful of our sense of living connection with the Lord……and that’s when Satin steps in saying, “Why not try some of this?”

Love vs. obedience: it’s not a case of affection vs. action. Clearly Jesus condemned the Pharisees’ insistence on rules that didn’t come from God. Divine commandments are another matter. If you love me, you will keep my commandments (John 14).