Faith without works / Works without Faith is dead?

Apologetics
1

Works of men without faith is dead.

  • True
  • False
0 voters

Faith without works is also dead.

  • True
  • False
0 voters

Holiness is Christ working in us.

  • True
  • False
0 voters

Faith (trust) + Grace (action) = Fruit (love re-produced).

  • True
  • False
0 voters

A Covenantal relationship is a deeper relationship with Christ. You need more than just a relationship with Christ.

  • True
  • False
0 voters

Baptism and Holy Eucharist (among the other Sacraments) are works of Christ and His bride, the church (and not merely “works of men” as some Protestants claim).

  • True
  • False
0 voters
2

Peace to all

The two nature, God from the faith of Abraham becomes alive from the spirit through the created souls of all for the created flesh becoming one body becoming again one Holy Spirit, family, one God in being I believe

3

“Faith washout”? Faith washout works for me. :wink:

Not to contradict St. James who wrote the epistle (didn’t we recently have the feast day of James the Apostle? Hey, whoever names the feast days, there were two apostles named James!), I will consider the question with the word “useless” instead of “dead,” because if someone comes to faith, maybe not all good works up to that point are dead (like the skunk in the middle of the road, stinking to high heaven, which seems like an appropriate musical reference here). I think that for someone who turns to Him, God might credit the good works of an entire lifetime, even if some were done without faith.

And there’s the judgment in the Gospel according to the things people have done. God credited Abraham’s faith as an act of righteousness. Might God also credit acts of charity as faith? This wouldn’t be works without faith in the usual sense. But sometimes when someone I know dies who seemed to have little faith, I will pray, “Please remember all the good this person did for me.” The answer might be no, but I can ask.

1 Like
4

Peace to all,

The God of Abraham is in all generalizations the only Two Nature God from three Powers through spirit and life for the flesh in all becoming One Body becoming again for all in Heaven, OMNILogically, I believe.

Faith without works is Baptism only for the flesh becoming sanctified immortalization and Work proven sorrow is from Sacrifice through Penance forgiven becoming Holy Spirit Incorruption becoming again in all One Body, I believe,

**14 **What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? **15 **If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, **16 **and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? **17 **Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

Logically nutrients from born again is from The New Eve through the Church becoming in the New Adam saved through the Christ. Born again is becoming from failed in two natures, created by The Father mortal from the spirit corrupt in Adam and Eve not able to pass from death through resurrection, both natures weak from defiled mortal flesh fallible and not able to become, not able to lift, sanctify even the own self in righteousness, unjustified from having no autonomy by itself for becoming anything from failed choice, from good works of Faith sanctification through two natures in One Body, becoming Baptized, becoming first through the New Eve of flesh immortality and Holy Spirit incorruption, until the first sin, I believe.

Jesus came to fulfill, not come to remove Penance from Sacrifice forgiven in the Host glorifying all from Baptized Immortality in the New Eve becoming Holy Spirit Incorruption through the Christ for Jesus in the New Adam becoming again immortally glorified and incorruptibly transfigured and rationally reimaged and faithfully “Saved” in One Holy Spirit Family One God in being, OMNILogically, I believe, and also how the Mind of God works backwardly logically too, in all re-generalizations.

To me Mary’s Epiphany is from the Baptism by Her Son, Jesus, for The New Eve of Immaculate Flesh from Holy Spirit Incorruption through Mary’s Annunciation and as Baptized, “Well pleasing to The Father just like Her Son’s Epiphany in the Jordan River, now ready for Her Glorious Assumtion back to Heaven from where The Mother of God came, I believe.

Good works feature benefits from Animal Sacrifice intrinsically had intrinsic Penance from work proven Sorrow through Sacrifice in Penance, forgiven within. Old Covenant Sacrifice of Animals was the work proven sorrow through the flesh of the owner of the sacrifice, from firm commitment of amendment, carrying, bringing for sacrifice the best animal from the flock, the animal sacrifice, giving up all good from the loss of the animal, of the food for the family the animal could have provided, for clothing from the skins or shoes, all lost through the good works of the flesh of the penitent through the sacrifice in atonement for the penitents Old Covenant soul, and yet only for the spirit is only saved to the Bosom of Abraham, until The Christ, from Jesus in the New Adam through The Christ both spirit and life is fulfilled and is The Two Nature Resurrection God of Justice and God of Mercy from the spirit through the life, I believe.

Peace always,
Stephen

5

This is a very interesting topic. My father was a very “nice” man. Very moral. Very kind. But he was an atheist. Now…..when the Jewish clergy asked Jesus what the most important rule of spiritual life is, Jesus told them that he didn’t come to change or delete any of their rules. All the rules, he said, are good. But, he said, the rule of rules is to love God with all of our heart.

There is a difference between love and obedience. Most religious people are more concerned with obedience……because they don’t know what love of God is. They know what love of their children is, or what love of their wife is…….but love of God?

But when Jesus was answering the question of the Jewish clergy, he was making a distinction between love and obedience. He was indicating, by his answer, that keeping rules is obedience…….and that love is another matter. Of course, if we truly love someone, being faithful to their desires and expectations becomes easier. This was demonstrated by Jesus when he said, “Not my will, but Thy will be done.” He was saying, “I am putting all of my desires aside. All I want is to align myself with Your desires.” This is not about being a good boy so that one can receive a reward. This is the natural inclination of real love. And this is what Jesus is teaching, in his preaching, and by his example.

So what is the difference between love and obedience? Or, what is the different result of both? Well, scripture talks about “sewing and reaping”, and “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.” Why? Because this God’s law. This is how things work in God’s creation. No one gets away with anything. We have moral rules…….because if we follow them, we reap the benefits. This is the concept of sewing and reaping. When we sew a seed in the earth, we don’t get the fruit immediately…….but as the man in the street says, “What goes around comes around.” In other words, we’re here, in this material dimension, the material creation, to learn what is our most positive orientation. And if we don’t have love of God……yet, at least let us be obedient, and see that our lives become blessed in so many ways. Our hearts become blessed by being pious. And our practical endeavors become blessed as well. And the benefit of being pious, is that the heart becomes progressively softened. The kinder we become to each other, the more we begin to enjoy it. And this is the beginning of being a loving person. We have the same relationship with God. The more we keep His rules, the more we become able to do as Jesus instructs……..to love God with all of our heart. We are in training. We are in rehab……from being self-centered, to being God-centered. “Not my will, but Thy will.”

So the answer is (at least for me), that works without faith, will not bring us immediately closer to God, but it’s a step in the right direction. And faith without works, could be an indication that our faith is not very strong. Or perhaps, that although we have faith, we tend to be forgetful of our sense of living connection with the Lord……and that’s when Satin steps in saying, “Why not try some of this?”

6

Peace to all.

So true, Peter1,

In all generalizations, Faith is Baptism, good works is Sacrifice through Penance forgiven, I believe.

Peace always,

Stephen

7

Love vs. obedience: it’s not a case of affection vs. action. Clearly Jesus condemned the Pharisees’ insistence on rules that didn’t come from God. Divine commandments are another matter. If you love me, you will keep my commandments (John 14).