Do you support capital punishment?

General
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Do you support capital punishment?

I know that many people say yes and will quote “an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth”. But the bible also says not to pass judgement on people as that is for God to do.

The main objective is to remove a dangerous criminal from society to keep people safe. Putting someone in jail already does that. Spending a lifetime in prison is already a sufficient punishment and can be more torturous than killing them.

It’s also very hypocritical to punish an alleged killer by killing him. You become no better than the criminal and break the commandment that says “thou shall not kill”

The justice system isn’t perfect. It often gets it wrong, the risk of wrongfully killing an innocent person is high. The justice system revolves around money, those who have a lot of money can afford an expensive barrister, that money gets distributed to the judge and jury in order to free the accused. Those who can’t afford a barrister will almost certainly loose the case simply because they’re poor. This opens the door even further for wrongful executions of innocent people.

If the justice system was perfect and could be trusted then maybe one could make a good argument for capital punishment. But the fact is that it’s not perfect, it is flawed, open to error, favouring the rich and persecuting the poor.

They’re the reasons why I oppose capital punishment. What are your thoughts?

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I used to be fine with the death penalty until a man who was falsely accused and sentenced to death row came and spoke at our Church, along with the Priest who’s hobby was also being a Lawyer, got him free! The Priest then also hired him to do work around the Parish until he could find a good job. Even though he was legally later deemed innocent, he will always have the stain of once being convicted rąpe & murder.

Long-story-short, he went out drinking with some guys from a job he had just been hired at and didn’t know very well. One of these men did evil things to a woman and the two men blamed it on the new guy. The man who really committed the crime was murdered himself before he could be brought to trial for what he had done.

CNN did a piece on this amazing story. But, how many other shave been sentenced to death for crimes they didn’t commit? More than some would like to admit.

The only time I might be okay with Capital Punishment is if someone committed multiple murders on multiple occasions and it involved extremely pervęrted acts.

The Priest was in the process of representing another man who was on death row who admits he murdered a woman, but claims he did not rąpe her, which would have given him life in prison and not death. He admits he deserves life in prison, but he does not feel that he should be punished for the crime he did not commit.

Apparently Ohio only kills people if there is murder + rąpe (or so it seems).

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Wasn’t St. Paul responsible for murdering Christians prior to his conversion? As Christians how do we feel about not giving someone else (and God) that same opportunity to encounter Christ and repent of his/her evil deeds?

There is also a tradition that the Roman soldier who pierced Jesus’ side had a conversion of heart after this moment. I started reading a novel titled “The Spear” by Louis De Wohl imagining what this mans’ life might have been like prior to and after this moment. I should finish reading it.

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In 1999, Pope John Paul II called the death penalty “cruel and unnecessary” (quoted on the US Conference of Catholic Bishops website at Statements from the Vatican on the Death Penalty | USCCB). And I too have heard of people being executed for crimes they did not commit.

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Well, it would help if we could get rid of Maritime Law. Common Law worked fine for the longest time, and when Maritime Law kicked in, it really messed all sorts of things up, including our laws.

You wanna know the worst language to cast spells with is? Legalese. Go figure….

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That’s a good point. Putting someone in jail gives them the chance to repent and turn to Christ as we saw how Jesus forgave the criminal on the cross who was truly repentant.

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That’s another great point, the RCC does not support the death penalty.

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A person who takes a life, against the law, has to be killed in order that in his next life in this material world, he will not have to suffer for killing. This is a favor to him. It removes the pain that is coming to him.
To do what is right in this way is not about judging the man. It is about helping him. Everyone is pure spirit soul. In this way we are all equal in the eyes of God. A person acting under the influence of the bodily desires of the flesh, and under the dictates of his mind, even if he is engaged in sinful activity, he is still a pure spirit, underneath these dictates. It is a diseased condition of the spirit.
When a doctor uses his knife to cut out a cancer, he is not judging the patient. He is being helpful. When a criminal is judged in the court, his soul is not being judged. His activities are being judged. And the judgement is for his good.
The word, “penitentiary” comes from the word , “penitent”. This means to be sorry for what one has done. It is not for judging his soul. It for helping him to know that doing wrong brings more suffereing in his life.

“Judge not that ye be not judged” means that when we see that somone is being sinful, we don’t judge him on the basis of his sinful activity. We see him as a pure spirit that is under the control and dictation of the flesh. If we evaluate his being, his worth, in terms of his actions, we are on the same platform as the sinful man who identifies dictates of the flesh with himself. Jesus sees us all in terms of our spiritual potential, not in terms of our sins. This is why he can love us. We all have to cultivate this vision of everyone’s eternal nature. Otherwise we are on the same platform as the sinner. By being bound in that way, by our vision, we also will engage in sinful activity. Therefore we are warned that if we see each other in terms of the material body instead of in terms of the spirit within, we will also be forced to act in ways that will be judged by man and by God.
So yes, one who kills has to be killed. So that his “bills” are paid. and so that he can learn in this way. And that is a kindness, for his benefit. If someone steals your wallet, and forgiven by the court, he will soon come back to steal it again. Such a person has to learn that stealing will not be for his benefit , for his happiness. Also, when people are forgiven when commiting crimes, other people will be encouraged to commit crimes. Therefore it is the responsibility of the rulers of nations to make laws that discourage sinfulness.
Today the world is filled with scams. These people should be caught, and suffer severely, so that others will think twice before becoming a scam artist.

All this scamming goes on because the leaders of nations are dishonest. Therefore the world follows their example. The man in the street thinks, “These government people are fabulously wealthy. But I cannot see a doctor. I cannot get education without going into great financial debt. The government will not help me. The rulers are all working together to keep each other wealthy within the nation. They are taxing all of us and giving us nothing in return. They are expoiting us. They are crooks in fancy suits. I will become a crook also. This is how the world works. It’s every man for himself.” And therefore the country, the world, is filled with scams.

Therefore punishments are required. Tar and feather and capital punishment, and castration for sex offenders……like Epstein and the politicians and business men who were his friends and clients.

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It’s a touchy subject, but I believe that if someone is a threat to society even after being imprisoned, like how Ted Bundy was an escape artist and killed 3 more people after his first arrest, they need to have their “flame put out” so to say. But then again, God is supposed to be the only person allowed to take a life.

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And if a person is wrongfully convicted? Is it just bad luck for them?

What if a person can’t afford a lawyer? Is it just bad luck for them?

Your reasoning would be valid if the justice system was fair and always right. Unfortunately the justice system is often wrong and is easily corrupted by money. This is why your argument is a poor one, the justice system is not perfect, as a result you would be killing some innocent people along the way which would be diabolical.

Imprisoning someone keeps society safe from criminals. That’s the main objective, not the malicious nature of taking someone’s life in the name of vengeance. The Catholic Church strongly condemns this practice.

God Bless

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To that I respond in the same way as I did previously. The justice system isn’t perfect, it often gets things wrong and is easily corrupted. Those who can’t afford a lawyer don’t get a fair trial. Therefore the justice system cannot be trusted. Imprisonment is sufficient enough to keep society safe from a criminal. The Catholic Church condemns capital punishment

God Bless

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This might be a hot take, but this is what I think should be done to criminals personally.

If by some chance reincarnation is a real thing (because I personally believe in it, cause I see evidence of it), but if by some chance reincarnation is real, then that means that death isn’t really a means to an end, nor is keeping people in jail till they die, cause they’ll just inevitably come back again anyways.

So what should be done? Well here’s the thing. Some of you may/may not know this, but, the United States military (along with other militaries) have UFO’s that they are able to actually control. We have the technology that if we really wanted to, we can take all of the people that are currently in prison, put them on a UFO and go to a distant planet and dump all of them on an uninhabited planet. You would need someone to monitor that planet to make sure no one would escape, but we have the technology and the means to do it, so why aren’t we doing that? There’s so many good people on this planet, why should we have to share it with criminals when they can just live the rest of their lives on a planet reserved exclusively for them? I’m personally tired of having to share a planet with people who do nothing but contribute to the degeneracy of huemanity. It’s bad enough they could be living amongst us and blend in as a normal person, and I dunno about you all but in today’s day and age, it’s scary out there. There’s wayyyyy too many criminal activity going on. We don’t need to be sharing a planet with people who love to commit all sorts of crimes against us. Put them on a planet where they can only do bad things to eachother. We have all of this awesome technology, and yet we’re not using it.

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There are crimes in the Old Testament punishable by death. I think that the current Catholic opposition to the death penalty is not based on a complete prohibition on execution but on its not being necessary when society can be protected from criminals by their imprisonment, and considering the other objections already mentioned, such as conviction and execution of people who did not commit a capital crime.

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Hi Cristo!

Everything I say is only what my sciptures tell me and what I believe. But I must admit that I cannot prove any of things that I am saying. Therefore, if I sound like someone who thinks that they know something…..please forgive me.

It seems that in spiritual matters, no one can prove anything to another person. The buden of proof is the challenge of the disciple. We have to receive revelation. And we have to earn it. If Jesus or God gives us a revelation, then such a person’s faith cannot be changed. I am just a beginner in spiritual cultivation.

You have written: “And if a person is wrongfully convicted? Is it just bad luck for them? What if a person can’t afford a lawyer? Is it just bad luck for them? “
I do not believe in the concept of “luck”. When I was in university (many years ago) my science professors spoke of the process of “chance”, because they could not account for the phenomena of the material world in any other way. But the concepts of “luck” and “chance” are actually atheistic ideas. According to the scriptures of the world, God is the “Supreme Controller”. “The Supreme Giver of justice.”

Also, you have written: “Your reasoning would be valid if the justice system was fair and always right. Unfortunately the justice system is often wrong and is easily corrupted by money.”

I feel that you are correct in this way of evaluating the so-called justice system of this world. At the top (in the U.S.) is Mr. Trump. As far as I can see, he is a racist. He has hired a team of racists called “ICE”, and they are harrassing and deporting Hispanic people. Also the black man in the U.S. (negroes) are filling the penal institutions. These institutions are not run by the government. They are private businesses. Therefore those who run these businesses are profit oriented. They are happy to receive the black man, and then make profit by making these men work…….renting then out. They are not interested in giving these men a better opportunity to live as free men.. They are interested in running their own version of “slavery” in America. All of this is supported by the United States Government. If you look at you tube, you can see so many ways in which the police of the U.S. are inappropriately dealing with people.
However, there is another justice system which we cannot see going on………but that we mistakenly call “luck”. And this is the justice system of God.
I know this a Catholic site. But I believe that we are all here in the material world (instead of the spiritual world) because we are the rebels from the spiritual world. The Bible talks of Adam and Eve, and that they disobeyed God and were excommunicated from God’s Garden of Eden, to live in the material world, where life is very difficult. The scriptures that I follow (try to follow) say that we are all like Adam and Eve, and that Jesus has come to take us back to our real home. We are here now. The Bible speaks of “sewing and reaping”. This is a metaphoric descripitioin of how we receive good fortune and bad fortune in the material world. What we plant grows up and comes back to us. “What goes around comes around.” Or, like Jesus says, “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.” One can think that this is a nice sentiment. But I believe that it is also a warning. Because this is the law of how things work in this world. It is God’s law.

According to my scriptures, we are in the material world to learn, to become lovers of God, instead of lovers of “Mammon”. And if we don’t complete the course of rehabilitation, we have to return here, lifetime after lifetime, to continue our education. When God sends His messengers to give us guidance, we usually try to kill them, because they are a threat to “business as usual”. They killed Ghandi. They killed Martin Luthor King Jr. They put Mandella in prison for about 30 years. History books say that they poisoned Buddha. They made Socrates drink hemlock poison. And they put nails through the hands and feet of Jesus. This is the material world. We are all sinful. And if some of us are actually trying to become lovers of God, which is our real nature, we have to be very careful. Even the churches will condemn us and try to lock us up, or burn us at the stake. Saint Franscis ………Joan of Arc…. When Van Gogh was a priest (before he was an artist), he gave away his priestly robes to the poor who were cold. The church took away his position as a priest.
The justice systems of this world are all corrupt, run by men who are corrupt. But we are talking about God’s justice system. From one lifetime to the next in this world (outside of the Garden of Eden) everything that we do is recorded in God’s law books. Therefore one man is born in a palace. Another man is born in a garbage dump, or the son of a drug addict. One man is born to be an olympic athlete. Another is born crippled. All of this is according to God’s justice system. All of this is so that we can learn that “crime doesn’t pay”. This is God’s justice system, as it works in the material world. When tragedies happen to us, at any age, it is coming just on schedule. One man has a terrible car accident. Another becomes bankrupt. Another wins the lottery. Another is cheated. Another is killed in a war, or comes home with no legs. Everything is on schedule.
People pray to God for material blessings. But if they don’t receive what they ask for, they lose faith in God. They don’t know what they should pray for. We should pray that our hearts can become filled with love for God………because until our hearts are filled with a desire for God’s happiness, instead of our material happiness……we have to remain in the material world. Praying for material happiness is actually the worship of “mammon”, in the guise of being religious. Jesus did not teach us to pray for material happiness. He taught us that we should not seek our happiness in the things of this world. He taught that the higest rule of all scirptures is to “Love the Lord thy God with all of thy heart, with all of thy Strength.” When we love someone, we don’t ask them for anything. We only want to make them happy. God wants our love. This makes God happy. Only those who love God can live with God.
Being a “good” person is not enough. Jesus says that “It is not by good works alone that one can enter the Kingdom of God, and that a rich man cannot enter the Kingdom any more than one can put a camel through the eye of a needle”. Therefore being a “good” person or a wealthy person is not a sign of godliness. God wants our love. And this is what jesus came to teach. The jews of his time had their spiritual law books. Jesus said their laws for being “good” people were good laws, but that he came to teach the next step…….the real step……spontaneous feelings of heartfelt love for God, our eternal Father. Jesus said, “What does a man profit, if he gains all the benefits that this world has to offer……..but he loses his eternal soul.” Jesus is not teaching that we should aspire to become materially happy. He is teaching that we should qualify ourselves for leaving this place and not coming back. And the only qualification is heartfelt love of God.

Whatever happens to us in this world, we are reaping the results of our work, in this life, or from previous lifetimes in this material world, outside of God’s Garden of Eden. There is no such thing as luck. Everything is on schedule. Both the good and the bad that we receive. Anyone who does not believe and accept in this way is moving towards atheism.
God is the Supreme Controller. God is in charge of the Supreme Justice System. And God wants our love. But as long as our love is for the things of this world, to that degree we cannot give our love to God. This is why Jesus said, with strict discrimination, “Either you love God, or you love Mammon, the things of this world. Either you seek your fulfillment in your relationship with God, or you seek your fulfillment in your relationship with the things of this world. You can’t have both. It’s one of the other, from moment to moment.”
There were rich men in the time of Jesus. There were kings. There were people who occupied high social positions. But Jesus had no part of their world. He wore the clothes on his back. He ate and slept in no place twice. He had not social diversions. All he did was praise and glorify our eternal Father in heaven. And he said that if we want to return to our real home in heaven…..we have to become like him. It is his words, not mine: “O ye who are heavy-burdened, accept the yoke that I wear; you will find it to be very light and pleasurable.” This is what Jesus was teaching. But we are seeking justice in this world where there is no Justice, because everyone here is living in sin. The only sin is that our hearts are attached to the things of this world instead of having love for our Eternal Father. Then we receive the fruits of our work…….and complain that there is no justice. If we want real justice, we have to obey the law. There is only one law: “Love the Lord thy God with all of your heart, with all of your strength.” This is the teaching of Jesus.

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Ok not to use the word luck. Then it’s just too bad for people who are wrongfully executed because of an error. It’s just too bad for a poor person to be wrongfully executed simply because they can’t afford a lawyer, in your opinion.

Your prepared to kill some innocents in order to kill some guilty. I’m sorry but i disagree with that

God bless

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As say, I cannot prove anything. I am not very close to God. I am a very materialistic person, always thinking how to become happy by servicing my senses. Always seeking material satisfaction. I may be right…….and I may be wrong…..but my faith is that God is in control of everything that happens within the creation.
Whatever good fortune comes to me, it is only with God’s permission…….and whatever bad fortune comes to me…..I actually deserve worse…..but God is only giving me a token of what I deserve.
No one is innocent in the material world. The Catholic religion teaches that we are all under the influence of “original sin”. We are born sinful. This is not my made-up idea. This is taught by the church.
A materialist wants to make this world into a nice place. And a spiritual person wants to leave this place and become closer to God and live with God in heaven.
No one can live here very long. Everyone will grow old, sick and die. This life is useless. The only good that one can obtain from this life is if one qualifies for eternal life with God in heaven.

Therefore if the person who is wrongly accused of a crime and is put to death…….what is the loss? If he is close to God in his heart, he is going to a much better place. And if he is not, he is going to hell.

You want everyone to have a nice life, a good life. There is no nice life in this world. It is a world of birth, old age, disease and death. You are wanting everyone to be happy. But there is no happiness here……only struggle, ending in death.

Therefore God sends His son to tell us about real happiness, and how that happiness can be obtained. He is not telling us how to be happy in the material world……because in the material world, every life ends with death. Therefore God’s messenger is telling us to look for our happiness in the the spiritual world, in heaven.
If you want everyone to be happy, then you also, should be wishing for them to go to heaven, because no happiness in the material world will last very long. Not family happiness, not social position, not sex happiness, not anything………and the more we try to be happy in the material world, the more troubles we create for ourself.
If the material world was a nice place, Jesus would not have come to tell us that we are on the wrong track. Jesus is not talking about creating heaven on earth. There will never be heaven here. Jesus is telling us where real happiness is, and how to become qualified for obtaining it.

Saving someone from capital punishment will not give that person eternal life. One can save a person from capital punishment, and then when he dies, and he goes to hell, what is the benefit? If you really want to save people, you have to tell them how they can have eternal life in heaven.
In any case, please forgive me if I am a disturbance to your mind. I do not want to hurt you in any way. I am only sharing my convictions, my little understanding. If you are inclined to help people who are wrongfully put on death row in the prison house…..perhaps you should use your life energy in that way. That is not bad. But it will not give anyone eternal life in heaven.

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Peter, you are a dear friend of mine, and I 100% agree with pretty much anything you post, but there are some things that people are not ready to hear. I love you brother, but, there are certain concepts that unless people are truly ready to move on from 3D concepts and 3D ways of thinking, it’s just going to go in one ear and out the other.

You speak from a higher perspective, and that’s why people have trouble trying to grasp what it is you talk about. Too many people are too quick to label things, which makes for all sorts of confusion. I innerstand you, and I’m right with you, this world is a circus. It’s a parade with an overwhelming amount of clowns on it. And then you have people like you and I, who are just done. We’re done with this clown show, because this world is a joke, a farce. It’s nothing but smoke and mirrors. I do not see how anyone can love being here. This world is a filthy disgusting ugly cesspool, and the system we lived in was specifically designed for the downfall of the individual. You know this, I know this, and everyone that believes in the same thing we believe in know this too.

I love you brother, which is why I can’t sit here and see this kind of thing go down. Let me be the village idiot. Let me be the one that people look at and wonder if I own a bunch of cats. I’ve lost everything in this life anyways. I literally have nothing more to lose. The only thing I own in my name is my car, but I’ve lost everything else. Let me be the village idiot. I’ve been called everything but a white boy, in other words, I’ve been called everything but what I am. I was debating on whether or not I should say something, but I’m getting tired of people not even trying to innerstand where you or I am coming from. I love you Peter. Let me talk about stuff like that. I’m not tied to any religion or anything, I have nothing to lose other than my car, which surprisingly no one has done anything to it (although in this town I wouldn’t put it past certain people). By the way, thank you for the books. I’ve been really busy lately and haven’t gone back to reading them, but what insight! Thank you brother. God bliss you!

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Perhaps we have different ideas about the nature of reality. God created heaven and earth. But God invites us to heaven. The Bible describes life in heaven. There are unlimited souls in heaven. They are referred to in the Bible as the “heavenly host”. They are praising God, glorifying Him. And we are down here. God invites us to live in heaven.
Are you thinking that perhaps God has made some mistakes? Are you thinking that God tried His best, but things like cancer have happened in the material world by accident? Are you thinking that when people are killed in earthquakes that it is because God has lost control of the material creation? When a village is covered with lava from a volcano, is it because God has lost control of nature? And when people die of the aids epidemic, this is also another mistake that God has made? Is this you idea?
I ask you a question: if the material world is supposed to be such a nice place, why is God inviting us to live in heaven?
All of this is common sense. The fact is that we are already in hell. There are worse places than this earth planet. But this is a place of suffering. The spirit soul is eternal. It cannot die. But in the material world, everyone dies. Actually no one dies. But the material body gets diseased and old and stops functioning……and we call it death. But the soul continues to live.

We are in the atmosphere of death. This is imposed upon us by God, because we have turned our back on Him. All of us have been evicted from what the Bible calls “The Garden of Eden”. In heaven there is no “good and evil”. Everything is good. But we live in the world of good and evil. Because we are sinful. God invites us to have eternal life in heaven. But we prefer to use our energy doing research, trying to make life nice in the material world. It is not meant to be nice. It is a place of punishment. It is where God put Adam and Eve because they were rebellious. And we are just like Adam and Eve. We are all rebellious souls. And God sends His representatives to invite us back home. But we prefer to stay here and make research, how to make life nice in the material world. How to make the court systems honest. How to make the governments nice, instead of expoitive. How to create medicines for diseases, instead of leaving and going to live in heaven, where there is no disease. All of this is going on because we want the kingdom of God without God. This is our determination.
In this world there is only unhappiness. There are always wars. There are hospitals filled with people dying. There are prisons filled with prisoners. There is sexual slavery. There has always been slavery on this planet. Even there has been human sacrifices in the culture of south American natives. When Cortez came from Spain, they offerred him the hearts of human scrifices. I have read this in history books. It is written in the history books. There is genicide being practiced today by the Isreali people against the Palestinians. But you want to make this world into a nice place. It will never be a nice place. It is a sinful place for sinful souls. And the ones who are willing to leave can go to heaven and live with God……..but most of them would rather try to make this world into a nice place. These are the facts.
No one can hurt a person who has surrendered his heart to God. God will not allow it. This is my faith. The worst they can do is take away our body, which is only a source of suffering. They cannot take away our eternal soul. But if someone values the material body (that is filled with blood, pus, stool and vomit) more than he values his eternal soul, then he becomes very upset if the courts sentence the wrong man to death.

This body is dead meat. It only looks alive as long as the soul is inside. As soon as the soul, the real person inside, departs, no one wants to embrace it. They want to burn it or bury it. Your concern is about this dead meat, instead of thinking very seriously about eternal life in the eternal world, the world that the scriptures refer to as “heaven”.

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You know what, I’m just gonna say it. You took the words right out of my mouth. Right on! Right on! You’re absolutely right….we live in a world where death is everywhere. This world is most definitely hell! It’s hell with flowers. Who rules this world? Satan does! The Bible clearly says this! And if you think for one second that you are free and your “Free Will” is being respected, you are so wrong. Your will is constantly being poked and prodded right under your nose and you don’t even see it! I mean, it’s bad enough that there’s all sorts of terrible things (like 5G towers) that mess with your aura which is connected to your inner divinity, and if that wasn’t bad enough the clothes you wear every single day more than likely restrict your aura. We are being messed with every single bloody day, and people just go about their day as if nothing’s going on.

You go Peter! You can articulate the truth way better than I can lol. But so much gold is coming from that Godly brain of yours. I hope people one day realize how golden your words are.

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That’s where we disagree. Your ok with killing innocent people. I consider that to be appalling

I bet you would change your mind if it was you that was wrongfully sent to death or one of your loved ones

God bless