Church cliques and their malignancy

I’ve noticed there’s Endless topics online discussing church cliques. I mean, there’s an enormous percentage of people that complain about it and it’s not really friend groups so much as toxic cliques that hurt others, and they know it, and even if you tell others the harm is not stopped by any clergy or anyone else.

So how can we protect ourselves and find different people in churches?

Last night my daughter and I went to a church event and there was this clique leader woman who is like the most judgemental woman I’ve ever met. It’s the churches YPG group. She builds this ideal looking group of people who “look” a certain way and everyone looks perfect like a storybook, and anyone who doesn’t fit her image is shunned as outsiders but also not even told about being rejected. It’s cruelty.

It’s actually disturbing. I mean, why would a big church allow some nasty witch to be on their payroll?

I’m getting the sense that you have been emotionally wounded by individuals claiming to be Christians.

This has been my perception of how cliques in school worked. Generally a clique was an association of like-minded individuals. The Jocks were into sports and were often considered popular (though not always the case). The Band Geeks had a common interest in music. There were sometimes an overlap between the Bandees and the Theater Kids. I sat at the misfits table, which was made up of kids that were outcasts of these various other groups. These were kids that I would not consider a friend, and whom I had very little in common with, except for the fact that we did not fit in. This was our uniting factor.

All my cousins were jocks and I would have probably been too (don’t hold this against me), had I cared about my grades enough to not be made ineligible to play sports. I was pretty good at sports (in gym class I dominated), but I was not good at education. I was labeled as having a learning disability (basically I was a slow reader and it took me hours to do homework). Teachers would make me stay inside during recess to do work. My life became nothing, but doing school work all hours of the day and night.

My best friend in first grade was very good at reading and education came easy to him. He couldn’t wait around for me forever, so he made other friends.

The biggest problem I saw when it came to cliques was a sort of social hierarchy and when someone of a perceived lower social group tried to move up. This would sometime work if the individual was from a group one tier lower, but if an individua was from one of the lowest tiers and tried to fit in three or four levels higher, this is when it was not goof for this individual. They would be bullied or ridiculed out of the group pretty quickly. The sad part was when the individual couldn’t see why they were not fitting in. One kid thought wearing cool shades would automatically make him cool. Maybe he got this idea from a Rom-Com where the nerdy girl gets a make-over and suddenly becomes the popular girl. Or maybe it was the individual’s empathetic mother trying to help her child fit in. Or maybe it is a father who was popular in high school and give his son or daughter a few tips on what he thought made him cool in high school. But, it inevitably failed, because every human being is different.

I often joke that when I got off the school bus (at home), I was the coolest kid in my school (in my own head). But, when I got off the bus at school, the reality was that I was kind of invisible (except in gym class, where I shined ; )

I am a parent now and as much as I would love for my children to be like me, it just isn’t going to happen. There will be ways in which they are similar to me, but I have one child who is more like my geeky side and another that has developed my love of sports, which is okay. The most important thing I hope to instill in them is a love of God, and a respect for others.

Just like how I was the coolest kid outside of school, when you graduate High School, cliques do not matter. You are that cool kid outside of High School. Grades do not prevent you from laying sports. You can peruse music if that is your thing and be really good or really bad at it and it really doesn’t matter. The one thing that remains true is that “readers make leaders.” If you like acting, then you will be reading scripts. If you want to become a politician you will be reading bills and teleprompters and junk (at least I hope you read the bills if you are elected to office!)

Let me ask you this. Are you still in School by any chance? For some, life will always be High School for them. But, that is the choice they make. You can choose to not live your life as though you are in High School. Who cares what others think of you. It doesn’t matter anymore. It never really mattered then either, but our perception was that it did matter.

One of the pillars of the First Amendment of the United States Constitution is the freedom to associate. No elected politician can make a law prohibiting you from associating with whomever will have you (there are instances where one might not be allowed in a certain distance from a school or have a restraining order against them, because of past offences). But generally, associating in public, is up to you and those you are associating with. There are private associations and institutions that can gate keep however they wish. You are free to join or not to be a part of this association or that organization.

There is no rule that any person must associate with you or me nor a rule that forces us to associate with anyone else that we do not want to in a public setting. However there are rules if we join a certain organization. Maybe it is part of your employment that you must work with others you don’t like or who don’t like you. We are free to work elsewhere or start our own business (if we have the means and the knowhow).

We cannot control how others perceive us. This is just a fact. We only have control over how we behave towards others. We can complain about others behave, but we cannot make them be like us. If they are open to it, we can help them be more like us. We can inspire them by how we live our Faith in Christ, but we cannot force anyone to have a relationship with Him nor with us. This falls under free-will.

I would put this under Freedom of Association. But, I will tell you that just because someone gives the appearance that they are storybook perfect, does not mean that they are perfect. When I was in High School, I like hanging out with this family that, in my own mind, was the perfect family. They had a nice house, they were just pretty people, and they were a lot of fun. What I didn’t know was that the parents were struggling in their relationship and the Wife was unfaithful, leading to their Divorce. Their son was battling addiction. And the oldest daughter (whom I had a crush on) got pregnant at a party. They were not the perfect family that I had built them up to be in my head. There is no such thing as a perfect family. And the Church is, in a sense an imperfect family.

Start your own group or join a different group. Why do you feel like you have to be a part of the group that you are trying to be a part of? Is it because you desire to be like them (like the me and what I perceived to be the perfect family or the kid in school who tried to be popular who had no chance in the world of magically being “popular”) or is it the only mall group available in your Parish? Have you thought about why you want to be a part of this small group?

If you are out of High School, I would invite you to be a member of the Knights of Columbus (if you are a man and your Parish has a council that is doing it for the right reason and it is not just a drinking club). Some councils have lost their purpose, but others are fantastic and are doing amazing work in their communities. Ours at one time was just a drinking club and when I was asked to transfer, I told them I would not until they changed this. When they sold their building they moved the drinking club for after the meeting and events, so now the organization is getting back to what it should be and those who still want it to be social are free to meet-up afterwards wherever they want, though they do need to keep in mind that they are representatives of Christ and His Church, as we all are. Hope this helps.

A church, regardless of the denomination, is a group of humans. People just do not leave their faults or flaws at the door. I would say that the average Catholic is less “cliquey” than how a lot of other Christian denominations can be, but not for the reason that those seeking piety would hope for. The average Catholic will give the hour and leave as soon as they can. Most do not treat their church community as foremost in their life.

That being said, I’ve had personal experience with belonging to an ecclesial community. I found that the most devout Catholics, with almost a church within a church were the ones rife with church gossip and pride. Pity (of those not as pious) can lead to pride for them along with passing judgement on others.

It’s a very typical (but unfortunate) human behavior no different in any way in a church than it is in any other group of humans.

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:100:% agee.

I am a member of the Libertarian Party (which is currently smaller than the Democratic and Republican Parties) and I can tell you that it is hard to get individuals who disagree to remain respectful of one another.

The mantra, “You’re not a real libertarian” has became meaningless, because the allegation has been hurled so often by pretty much anyone who is in the liberty movement.

What I really dislike is the screen-grab game, which falls under gossip and back-stabbing. Someone will have a private or public conversation with someone and the other will take a screen-shot of something that was said and will post it and say, “Can you believe this?!” Or, “Look what this person said or did!” I’ve had it done to me and what I had said was taken out of context and what I said was actually meant to unify, rather than divide. But, because this individual had such animosity towards the other, she thought I was defending the other. I was just trying to suggest a solution towards reconciliation. I learned pretty quickly that it is best to be quiet and enjoy the drama, but try not to be a part of it.

The Libertarian Party is currently very much like the Tower of Babel, but as is the Democratic and Republican Parties right now.

Democrats have battle going on between the progressives and the classical liberals. Republicans have a three-way battle between the Neo-Cons, MAGA, and Liberty Republicans.

In the LP, it is a divide between the various Caucuses and the fight is usually over messaging and how each defines liberty (differences in language or babel).

As a Libertarian, I like it when Republicans and Democrats in Congress are not able to compromise and they can’t get anything done. The less they do the better in most cases. I want them to spend less. I want them to get out of things they know very little about. I believe the Federal Government has three main roles, which are to protect life, liberty, and private property (in this order). Anything else is over-reach and should be done on the State, local, in the home, or not done at all. I’m not saying this to sell anyone on the various philosophies of libertarianism, but rather to illustrate that this is not just a Church thing.

At a parish I belonged to in Virginia, one time I and another parishioner went to the church for confession, which as far as we knew was scheduled. A man wouldn’t let us in the door because his group was using the church. He went and looked at the bulletin board but wouldn’t tell us what it said. He wouldn’t let us into the vestibule to look at it ourselves. The other parishioner said to me that this is why people leave (neither of us left the Church or even the parish). I don’t think that incidents such as this are why people leave the Church, but if someone were inclined to leave and just needed one more push, this might do it.

I think it’s a church clique but it’s a Young People’s Group. All the young women try to look similarly conservative to fit in with the clique leader

But what I’m seeing nowadays is younger people are just plain mean and rude. They’re also very discriminatory about age. They only want to associate with people in a very narrow age range.

Then they try to act like it’s just how people our age are, but that’s a lie. The truth is they’re just mean and clique women. It’s a certain age range that does it but they don’t admit they’re being mean. They just say it’s how everyone their age acts nowadays.

Anyways, there’s volumes about church cliques online discussed at message boards. There’s cliques in every church.

But I’d brought my daughter to an event and it didn’t work well so I may take her to a different church and try that instead

I’ve had that happen to me at an event where we were supposed to train social skills. “I prefer gaming by age”, a younger guy told me. Took me a few moments to decode what he said.

I think that is the sensible thing to do.

A few words from my teaching education. When there is a lot of insecurity, the social hierarchy tends to be hard. When there is comfort, everybody is happy to reach out. Along the lines of this thought, I really wouldnt blame anyone for “not stepping in”. Rather, we should all make a mention of this issue in our evening prayer today, we who read this :slight_smile:

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Do not associate with those false Christians. Stay on your own and you and your daughter go “solo”.

My daughter is actually okay with it. But it was one of the first church events she’s been to so I didn’t want to ruin it for her, but she’s very popular at school and has a lot of healthy friendships.

I think the thing is my daughter dresses more alternative and she’s into non church music. She’s more artsy and smart. The YPG clique we encountered was like a bunch of twenty year old Betty Crocker clone harpies

It ticked me off that their YPG seemed like jerks. Yeah and I recently learned the YPG committee leader her family donated a bunch of money to the parish so they gave her a leadership job, and yeah it seems like she has her own problems to deal with

Due to the passive response of this topic I’d like to make this into a MASTER topic online about church cliques

Church cliques are created by dummies. It’s when dummies and lamos are placed in control of groups

And I’d like to make this topic shine as the premier dispensary of information regarding church cliques…

Stay tuned

Okay boomer ; )

Some Churches have a more vibrant Parish life than others. Small groups is important to building (hopefully positive) relationships.

Human beings are naturally tribal. It was a way of survival. When you see other groups as a threat, one will often put others down as a form of elevating one’s own group.

Why are Polish people viewed as dumb? It is because the Germans spread lies about the Polish people. I have friends who are Polish and one them got a perfect on his ACT and a full ride scholarship in marine biology, before being beaten severely by two drunk dudes for wearing a sports jersey of a team they didn’t like. They smashed his skull into the pavement multiple times causing damage to Tony’s brain. He was never the same since. He never ended up going to College and won a large sum of money in a law suit against them. He now works in his family’s-owned gas station.

How many blondes does it take to screw in a lightbulb? These types of joke have been around long before I was born. Past generations were also mean. It is fallen human nature.

When we begin to see others as individuals rather than a collective, that is when we begin to treat others with more respect.

It’s also possible that a lot of the apparently unfriendly people are shy.