When Jesus said “My God my God, why have you abandoned / forsaken me.” According to the definition of of those 2 words, was there a spiritual separation between God the Father and God the Son, as Jesus suffered the due punishment of our sins, which is separation from God.
Jesus was quoting from Psalm 22:2. Jesus is the answer to David’s Prayer.
I do not believe that Jesus actually thought that God had forsaken nor abandoned Him.
Some Protestants believe that God looked upon Jesus with wrath and disgust, because Jesus was covered in our sin, but as Dr. Scott Hahn points out, the opposite is true. God looked upon His obedient Son with total love. Yes, our sins are what nailed our Savior to the cross (forgive us Father, for we know not what we do), but it was God’s love that Christ reveals to us in the Cross.
Great question! Maybe someone else has another perspective that I have not touched on. There is so much depth revealed in Sacred Scripture and I love it!
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I think Jesus was comforting us and showing us that our feelings of abandonment are understood by God.
Jesus did not feel forsaken. As said, it is the first line of Psalm 22, a VICTORY PSALM. In times of stress of excitement, it was common/ to recite the Psalms in the ancient world. Even in agony, facing death, Jesus was looking at the triumph beyond the nails.
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If Jesus was true God and True man couldn’t he have had human feelings of abandonment even just temporarily? Did Jesus want to fully experience the range of human emotions ?
He certainly could have. I’m actually doing a Bible Study on the YouVersion App titled, “The 7 Last Words of Christ” with Jim Caviezel. I’m sure this one will be one of them.
Will you be announcing when the bible study starts? Would love to hear it!
The thought that even Christ felt abandoned BUT was then comforted by the Father is in turn comforting to me. Thank you!
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I am not conducting a Bible study, I was just asking the question.
I don’t have my Catechism with me right now, but in the back there is a concordance where you can look up Scripture verses and it tells you everywhere in the Catechism that references that verse. It is really quite handy.
Here is the link to the Study/Devotional that I was referring to: The 7 Last Words of Christ With Jim Caviezel
Anyone can join in if they would like. The app tries to get you to do it daily, but I am doing 1 each week, but it is fine if you get ahead of me : )
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Good morning. This past Lent I shared each day on my podcast Lenten Reflections. I read for 7 of the 40 days of Lent the reflections from Venerable Fulton Sheen on the Seven Last Words of Christ. His reflection on The 4th Word (My God, My God) may be the best of all. You can which you can find his writings here The Seven Last Words, by Venerable Fulton John Sheen
Peace to you.
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Its was not a seperation but a plan. Gods plan .the holy spirits plan for Jesus to be the victim of the fact of not following the laws in his time… The courts he went thru showed that they’re were not Judging him while the last one heard the taunting of the people whom were shouting curcify him over and over. The plan was to show the law was there for a reason . .the very laws they the peolle broke by following him and seeing the wonders he performed. THE LAWS that the father God had laid down.
Which world wide now days by the laws that God wrote in the ten comandments Jesushad broken.
The people caused his death via thier own sins and the Laws were already written. a
AMERICA THE LAND OF THE BRAVE HAS GOT THE NEW WORLD BY THIER TRUE COLORS AND FAITHS.
Jesus completely detached from everyone going to and on the cross he had to make the sacrifice completely alone he even gave his mother to the apostle John.The shepherd was stuck and the sheep were scattered. When Jesus cried out even the father remained silent for our sake.You should think about that silence from the father it was because of us.The father would of loved to have responded to Jesus but could not due to our sins.It was the greatest act of love for us that ever has or ever will happen again.
Thank you Cade-One. Beautiful answer! the only thin I cannot embrace is the idea that the only way in which we could be relived of responsibility to pay for our sins is through the suffering of Jesus. Jesus would heal someone, and walk away, saying, “keep this to yourself and sin no more.” Jesus relieved the man from the price being paid for being sinful. All the Jesus wants of us is to open our hearts to God. Jesus does not suffer like we do because we are inside this material bags of skin and bones. Jesus can heal, walk on water, move mountains, and move from one continent to another without an airplane (if he wants to). To think that he endured horrific pain as the price of our sins, is a terrible idea. One who accepts this has to be filled with terrible feelings of unworthiness and guilt. Jesus is not wanting this. Jesus says, “Rejoice!” “Rejoice,… and sin no more.” Jesus does not have to pay for our sinfulness. Our sinfulness is completely forgiven if and when we completely give our hearts to God. There is only one sin. Wanting anything aside from God’s pleasure. All sin arises from that one sin. This was the teaching of Jesus, by his example, when he said, “Not my will, but Thy will be done, my Lord.” Jesus showed by his example what is means to be a loving servant of God…that with every thought, word and deed, we seek only God’s pleasure. Jesus does not suffer. Jesus rejoices in God’s company eternally, whether here on earth, or with God in heaven. But he does different things…to invest faith in our little hearts. Otherwise, we wouldn’t believe. So he walked away from the tomb… to make the point…that we are eternal spirit souls…that cannot be destroyed when the body drops. The crucifixion was not to create guilt in our hearts…but to create faith.
Jesus dictated His commentary on that question of His to Maria Valtorta on July 14th, 1946. He said the following:
"V. ‘My God, why have You abandoned Me?’
The Father sometimes seems to abandon. He is only hidden to increase expiation and grant greater forgiveness.
Can man complain about this wrathfully—he who has abandoned God on numberless occasions? And should he despair because God is testing him?
How many things you placed in your hearts that were not God! How often you were unresponsive to Him! With how many things you rejected Him and drove Him away. You filled your hearts with everything. You then set ironwork on your hearts and bolted them shut because you were afraid that God, on entering, might disturb your indolent quietism and purify his temple by throwing out the usurpers. As long as you were happy, what did you care about possessing God? You would say, ‘I already have everything because I deserved to.’ And when you were not happy, didn’t you ever flee from God by making Him the cause of all your misfortune?
Oh, unjust children who drink poison and enter into labyrinths and plunge into precipices and lairs of serpents and other beasts and then say, ‘God is to blame,’ if God were not a Father, and a holy Father, what should He say in reply to your complaints about the painful hours when you forgot Him in the happy ones? Oh, unjust children filled with sins who would demand to be treated as the Son of God was not treated in the hour of the holocaust, tell Me: who was the most abandoned one? Isn’t it the Christ, the Innocent One, He who, to save, accepted utter abandonment by God after having loved Him actively at all times? And don’t you bear the name of ‘Christians’? And isn’t it your duty to save at least yourselves?
In turbid, self-complacent indolence fearing disturbance from accepting the Active One, there is no salvation. Imitate Christ, then, by casting forth this cry at the time of most intense anguish. But make the note of the cry one of meekness and humility, not a tone of blasphemy and reproach. 'Why have You abandoned me—You that know that without You I can do nothing? Come, O Father, come to save me, to give me strength to save myself because the grip of death is horrendous and the Adversary cunningly augments its power over me and hisses that You no longer love me. Make Yourself heard, O Father, not because of my merits, but precisely because I am a nonentity with no merits who is unable to overcome when alone and now understands that life was work for Heaven."
'Woe to those who are alone,’ it was said. Woe to those who are alone at the hour of death, alone with themselves against Satan and the flesh! But do not fear. If you call the Father, He will come. And this humble invocation of Him will make amends for your blameworthy indifference towards God, false worship, and disordered self-love, which make you indolent." (The Notebooks: 1945-1950)
Peace to all,
Forsaken/Abandoned and Just for 3 lonely long nights, becoming again for all, is The “Gift”, OMNILogically.
OMNILogically, His separation was only 3 nights in the Tomb of Jerusalem.
Jesus was Virgin Born both Immortal and Incorruptible, but had to from Baptism go through death and resurrection to become again, Glorified and transfigured through the Second Coming Nature Holy Spirit and Body becoming One Holy Family one God in being for all mankind. This is the never before on earth ever properly understood, rationally until the OMNILogical God and is the Faith of Abraham expressed in logic.
His separation was only temporary from the Holy Family but with Him through immortal flesh lift behind for all from the cross as the Paraclete, The Advocate becoming again through His Transfiguration as all mankind becomes again One Holy Spirit Family One God in being, OMNILogically. His separation was only for 3 nights in the Tomb of Jerusalem. And Through Jesus Death and His descension Jesus empties the Chasm of the Bosom of Abraham and with all in the flesh crossing over to the the Chasm of Hell with all and busting down gates and tearing down walls destroying death forever resurrection spirit with life, Both Natures becoming again in One Holy Family One God in being in all.
The First “Flesh” Nature felt abandoned from death riding into the Tomb of Jerusalem, anointed and greeted with palms, “Hosanna”, He knew, just like Isaac, but no sacrifical lamb will save The Christ, Jesus is the Eternal Priestly Authority and the New Living Sacrifice, when The First Born Christ of all creation says, “Let’s do this Dad” in some form of Arabic. Jesus knew for resurrection becoming from the Second Nature “Holy Spirit” Incorruption becoming again is for all back from where He Came, One Holy Spirit Family One God in being through both natures. Through His Death and resurrection The Body rejoins through the power of The Holy Spirit Family One God in being by His Conception, OMNILogically.
Peace always,
Stephen