The Nature of God

Apologetics
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First, I want to say that I am in no way trying to be disrespectful with my questions and comments that are to follow. I am truly asking these questions in good faith, because I’ve lost my faith, and I want to find it again. I want answers to these questions. I want to find out that I am just mistaken.

I was raised Catholic, but fell away from the faith. Whenever I have tried to approach it again, I run into the same things that made me fall away from it, which is that I find it hard to believe that the same God who commanded genocides and committed his own massive genocide, the same God who would, for example, torture innocent children who happened to be born in the “wrong” part of the world or in the “wrong” religion and who died before being saved in Christ by burning them forever in Hell, is the same God who we are worshipping. I don’t think that could possibly be who God is, if God is indeed good. I think that either the Bible is in error or our interpretation of it must be. Because to me, the only alternative to that being the case is that God is a brutal tyrant, and I don’t think that’s the case. I do think humans are messy and capable of claiming to speak for God to further their own aims, or, if not so intentionally, simply project, without knowing consciously that’s what they are doing, their own fears and torments and inadequacies onto their perception of God and then that’s when we get this almost evil caricature of a God who is a destroyer and commands others to destroy in his name. But I’m told the Bible is faultless, it is perfect, it is the word and the will of God. Jesus, by comparison, is almost nothing like the God of the Old Testament. Jesus is always who I feel called to. But the God of the Bible is always what repulses me from coming back to the faith, because how could I celebrate and worship God when he tortures innocent children for all eternity for never being taught his name? How could I celebrate someone who demanded blood sacrifices? How could I celebrate someone who committed the largest genocide ever? Can I be Catholic if the only way I can rationalize these things is to think that it is more likely that ancient people were desperately trying to make sense of their world and their spirituality and their vision of God was thoroughly tainted by the tribal, morally backwards lens they viewed him through? How can Jesus be one with God and the Holy Spirit, when their characters seem so drastically different? I would love some perspectives on this, perhaps some Bible verses or even any resources like books or videos anyone can recommend to help me wrap my head around this and figure this out. Thank you for anyone who is able to point me in the right direction or share your thoughts.

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There are certainly parts of the Old Testament that present a God who seems to be a paradox. However, your complaints are very general accusations. It would help if you could state the specific things you find impossible to accept. Chapter and verse would be helpful, but at least give us Bible stories we can identify and discuss. I’m not saying that the things you mention are not in the Bible, just that I personally could not recognize all of them from the vague descriptions.

So, which genocides did God command and commit (again, I’m not saying this isn’t in the Bible, but please be specific)?

Which innocent children were tortured for being in the wrong part of the world and wrong religion? Which part of the world and which religion?

Which children are burning forever in Hell?

Anything else you want to discuss, please give us more specifics.

Thank you.

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Welcome to the forum @Kaibmama!

It makes me happy to know that you are seeking the truth. At the same time I am sorry that you are experiencing some challenges along the way.

One the one hand, I want to say that the solution to these difficulties is to know Jesus Christ. He is the incarnate Word; the definitive revelation of God. Christ stands at the centre of everything. It is in light of him that we understand all of Scripture. When we take him to be the lens through which we view all things, it is incredible how much our perceptions can be changed.

On the other hand, I also know that your questions and real. And you deserve some sort of response to help remove (or at least diminish) obstacles to accepting the Word.

I can’t answer every question. In fact, this format of discussion has its limits. It would be far more helpful if you had someone to assist you in person. However, I will try to provide brief responses to at least some of your concerns.

Much like Literalman, how I would approach the questions of certain “dark passages” (a term used by Pope Benedict XVI) in the Bible may depend on the particular event being referred to. But to speak generally on the topic, Pope Benedict noted that God’s revelation is a revelation that takes place within history (i.e. the Bible is not just a book that fell from heaven, even if it is the word of God). God reveals his will progressively over and that there are discernible stages. It is not the God is one way in the Old Testament and another way in the New Testament. It is rather that God has been preparing the human community (and especially Israel) during the time of the New Testament to be ready to meet Christ. (To read what Pope Benedict had to say in his own words you can click here and scroll down to paragraph 42.) I’m not sure how much you have read of the Old Testament, but you can see development in thought from the books of the older times of the OT until the later times in the OT. The Bible is inspired, but that doesn’t mean God’s revelation is complete in the Old Testament (much less in any particular book of the OT).

I must admit that I am not certain whether you are speaking literally about “blood sacrifices”. It may be that you are referring to animals sacrifices, but the context of your question suggests you mean human sacrifices. God did not require literal human sacrifice in the Old Testament. In the Bible, a sacrifice is a cultic act that is offered to the glory of God (or, “the gods” for those who worship false gods) and to achieve some human good from God. That is distinct from other forms of killing that are prescribed. To use an easy example, God prescribes the death penalty for murder (e.g. Genesis 9:6), but does not demand that the blood of the murderer be offered to him in sacrifice on an altar, or that the body of the murder be eaten as a communion sacrifice, etc. The only human sacrifice pleasing to God is the sacrifice of the Son, which is very different from the human sacrifice practised by the pagans (i.e. they sacrificed men to the gods; but the true God sacrifices himself for mankind).

I know this does not respond to all your questions, but my time (like my understanding) is limited. Although I know what I have to say will seem remarkably insufficient in light of the deep and serious questions you have asked, I at least hope it gives you something to nibble on.

May the peace of Christ be with you.

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I too fell away from my Faith in College. But God, in His goodness, led me back.

God is the author of life and thus He can take it. We are not God and thus, God gave the commandment that we are not to take innocent human life.

In Genesis 18:23-33, God spares an ungodly city for the sake of a few righteous individuals.

God, our savior, wills everyone to be saved (1 Timothy 2:3-4).

He gifted all human beings with free-will. This is an act of love. Robots cannot love.

We differentiate between God’s active will and His permissive will. The problem of evil, as it is called, and that I believe you are wrestling with, is that human beings are free to choose evil or to choose God’s will. I define evil as anything that is “not of God.”

If someone commits awful acts against another, God is not actively willing for it to happen, but permissively allowing it to happen. But, from it, He can bring good from it.

In regards to your example of someone being born in the “wrong” part of the world or in the wrong religion, the Catholic Christian Church teaches that in cases where individuals have never heard of Christ or whom are not given the chance to reject God, then there is a chance that these individuals might still be saved by Christ’s merits on the Cross.

In 1 Peter 3:19-20, it says that Jesus went to preach to the souls in Hades who had once been disobedient while God patiently waited in the days of Noah during the building of the Ark, in which a few persons, eight in all, were saved through water (under the old Covenant). Verse 21 goes on to talk about how in the New Covenant, the waters of Baptism, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, that we are now saved.

The latter is true. I recommend Dr. Scott Hahn’s book, A Father Who Keeps His Promises. He walks you through the Old Testament (many of the passages that you are referencing) and how through it all, God has always been a loving Father, offering many chances to the human species. And it explains how covenant is a deeper relationship with the Father.

Again, I hope that you will pick up a copy of “A Father Who Keeps His Promises.” It really explains it.

Jesus is the World made flesh. The Old Testament point to Him. He is the Sacrificial Lamb promised to Abraham and Isaac (Genesis 22). Just like Isaac carried the wood of what would have become the sacrifice, had God not stepped in and stopped Abraham, who’s faith was being tested, Jesus carried the wood of the Cross. Jesus is both High Priest and Sacrificial Lamb. And it is His once and for all Sacrifice, offered at every Sacred Liturgy (Mass).

You can be Catholic and be wrestling with these thoughts and ideas, yes. While also being open to learning and growing in your understanding of Who Christ is. Trent Horn wrote a great book called, Counterfeit Christs: Finding the Real Jesus Among the Impostors. Another book he wrote that you might find beneficial is titles, Why We’re Catholic: Our Reasons for Faith, Hope, and Love.

The topic of the Holy Trinity has been debated in other thread here on CatholicTalk. If you click the search icon up in the upper right-hand corner of the page and search for “Trinity,” there should be a few results. But, even better than this, would be to visit Catholic Answers.

Apart from Scott Hahn and Trent Horn’s books that I mentioned above, Catholic Answers Live (Podcast) is very informative. You can even call in if you like.

I also recommend the Catechism of the Catholic Church. It was put together in the 1980’s and is an excellent resource to explain what we Believe and why we believe it. There were older Catechisms, like the Baltimore Catechism or the Catechism of the Council of Trent, but the one that I like is the big green one.

I really hope this helps. Know that I am Praying that God will hear your many questions, as you bring them to Him in Prayer.

In Genesis 18, Abraham is persistent in asking God questions. The Apostles are constantly asking Jesus questions in the New Testament. And Jesus even gives a parable about someone who keeps bugging his friend all hours of the night to illustrate how God wants us to bug Him (Luke 11:5-8). Really the entire chapter is about Prayer. Worth the read.