I’ve heard a lot of the arguments for Mary’s perpetual virginity … and for the most part, they are pretty convincing.
The only part I find hard to swallow is there doesn’t seem to be any president (that I can find) of a married couple taking a permanent vow of celibacy anywhere in the Bible. The very idea of celibate marriage seems an oxymoron, in fact (since isn’t that the point of marriage in the first place?).
Also … in Paul’s letters there seems to be clear “marital duty” to one another. Did Mary and Joseph break that duty?
Well, I don’t know much about Mary other than she was the Mother of God and was immaculately conceived.
But what I will tell you is this: Virgin births are real. They did a study of a group of women. And all these women were told to do was to visualize having a baby and to pretend they already have one, and what it would look like. And the study ran for about a month or 2 and these women got pregnant. Virgin births are real. I’ll have to see if I can’t bring up that study, truly fascinating stuff.
Right, it’s not in the Bible. Mary’s perpetual virginity is a Catholic dogma (a required belief). I think that anything further, such as a perpetual vow of chastity, is something added to the story. For that matter, her perpetual virginity isn’t in the Bible either, but not all dogmas are.
Firstly, only Mary conceived by God the Holy Spirit, and only Mary and Joseph were the human Parents of God the Word Incarnate (the Most Holy and Pure Eternal Being), which means They didn’t have an average ancient Jewish marriage and family. And, if God the Word incarnating Himself as a human isn’t hard to swallow, why is it hard to swallow the idea that His chosen Mother and putative Father, Mary and Joseph, were chaste in their marriage for God, especially considering ancient Jews were not forbidden from practicing chastity within marriage?
Secondly, little is known about Mary and Joseph in Scripture, both as individuals and as each other’s Spouses. However, Jesus did make Their lives more known, in part, by taking recourse to visions. He showed Maria Valtorta visions of scenes of Their lives and she described what she saw and heard. And, according to Maria’s accounts, Mary was of the stock of David and Aaron, a Virgin of the Temple from the age of 3 to 15, and was orphaned around the age of 4 or 5. When Mary was 15, the High Priest informed Her that since She was now a woman, it was time for Her to be given to a man of Her own stock and bear a son to the Lord, according to the Law. At hearing his words, Mary’s eyes began to shine with tears, and then Anna of Phanuel explained to the High Priest that Mary had already consecrated Herself to the Lord for His glory and for the salvation of Israel. Below are excerpts of how the conversation between the High Priest and Mary ended:
« Is that why You are crying then? Not because You wish to resist the Law? »
« Just for that… nothing else. I shall obey you, Priest of God. »
« This confirms what I have always been told of You. How long have You been consecrated to the Lord? »
« I have always been, I think. I was not yet in this Temple, and I had already given Myself to the Lord. »
Now I obey you, o Priest. But please tell Me how I am to behave… I have neither father nor mother. Please be My guide. »
« God will give You Your husband and he will be a holy man, because You have entrusted Yourself to God. You will tell him Your vow. »
« And will he agree? »
« I hope so. Pray, my child, that he may understand Your heart. Go now. May God always accompany You.»
Mary withdraws with Anna. Zacharias stays with the High Priest. The vision ends thus.
Following this, the High Priest gathered at the Temple men of the race of David, and said the following to them:
The Lord has spoken, glory be to Him! From His Glory a ray has descended and, like the sun in springtime, it has given life to a dry branch which has blossomed miraculously, whereas no other branch on earth is in bloom to-day, the last day of the Feast of Dedication, and the snow that fell on the mountains in Judah has not yet melted and everything is white between Zion and Bethany. God has spoken and has made Himself the father and the guardian of the Virgin of David Who has Him alone as Her protection. A holy girl, the glory of the Temple, She deserved the word of God to learn the name of a husband agreeable to the Eternal One. And he must be very just to be chosen by the Lord as the protector of the Virgin so dear to Him! For this reason our sorrow in losing Her is alleviated and all worries about Her destiny as a wife cease. And to the man appointed by God we entrust with full confidence the Virgin blessed by God and by ourselves. The name of the husband is Joseph of Jacob of Bethlehem, of the tribe of David, a carpenter in Nazareth in Galilee. Joseph: come forward. It is an order of the High Priest …»
Below is an excerpt of the conversation between Mary and Her betrothed, Joseph, during their first meeting:
But I was not expecting to be the chosen one as I am a Nazirite (see Num. 6) and I have obeyed because it is an order of the Priest, not because I wish to get married. Here is the branch, Mary. With it I offer You my heart, that, like it, has bloomed up till now only for the Lord and is now blooming for You, my spouse. »
Mary takes the branch. She is moved and looks at Joseph with a face that has become more and more confident and bright. She feels certain of him. When he says to Her « I am a Nazirite », Her face becomes bright and She takes courage: « Also I am all of the Lord, Joseph. I do not know whether the High Priest told you …»
« He only told me that You are good and pure, that You wish to inform me of a vow, and that I must be good to you. Speak, Mary. Your Joseph wants You to be happy in all Your desires. I do not love You my with body. I love You with my soul, holy girl given to me by God! Please see in me a father and a brother, in addition to a husband. And open Your heart to me as to a father and rely on me as on a brother …»
« Since My childhood I have consecrated Myself to the Lord. I know this is not the custom in Israel. But I heard a voice requesting My virginity as a sacrifice of love for the coming of the Messiah. Israel has been waiting for Him for such a long time!.. It is not too much to forgo the joy of being a mother for that! »
Joseph gazes at Her as if he wanted to read Her heart, then he takes Her tiny hands which are still holding the branch in blossom and he says: « I will join my sacrifice to Yours and we shall love the Eternal Father so much with our chastity that He will send His Saviour to the world earlier, and will allow us to see His Light shining in the world.
Below is an excerpt of a conversation Joseph had with Mary on their wedding day:
« I have pondered a lot on Your vow these last days. I told You that I will share it with You. But the more I think of it, the more I realise that a temporary Naziritism is not sufficient, even if renewed several times. I have understood You, Mary. I do not yet deserve the word of Light, but a murmur of it comes to me. And it causes me to read Your secret, at least in its main lines. I am a poor ignorant man, Mary. A poor workman. I know nothing of letters and I have no treasures. But I place at Your feet my treasure: my absolute chastity, forever, to be worthy of being beside You, Virgin of God, “my sister spouse, enclosed garden, sealed fountain,” as our Ancestor says, who perhaps wrote the Song of Songs seeing You… I shall be the guardian of this garden of spices in which are the most precious fruits and from which a spring of living water gushes out in a gentle surge: Your kindness, o spouse, has conquered my soul with Your innocence, o most beautiful one. You are more beautiful than dawn, You are a sun that shines because Your heart shines, You are full of love for Your God and for the world, to which You wish to give a Saviour with Your sacrifice of a woman. Come, my beloved spouse » and he takes Her gently by the hand and leads Her towards the door. All the others follow them and outside the joyful companions, all dressed in white and wearing veils, join them.
You can receive a more in-depth look into Mary’s birth and childhood, Joseph and Mary’s first meeting, betrothal, wedding, and early life with Jesus in The Poem of the Man-God: Vol. 1.
Glory be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit.
There are many as have already been pointed out. Matthew 27:56, John 19:25, and Mark 15:40 are verses often supporting the “cousins” claim. Mary, the Wife of Clopas, is believed to have been Jesus’ Mother’s sister or sister-in-law, which would make her children cousin’s of Jesus.
When you say “Scriptural reason,” what do you mean? Are you wanting a verse that specifically says, these were not Jesus’ literal siblings? That would not being reasoning at all. That would be a “literal Scriptural response to support a modern understanding of the text” and there is none. Nowhere in Scripture does it say “Evangelicals are correct in their interpretation of Matthew 12:46-50.” You will not find this clarification in The Bible.
What you will find in the Bible is that when there were disagreements on matters of faith & morals, they would go to the “pillar & bulwark of truth” (the Church) for clarification (see 1 Timothy 3:15; 2 Thessalonians 2:15; Matthew 18:15-17 & Acts 15).
There has not been official, definitive clarification. Various Church Fathers have held different understanding of these “brothers” of Jesus (Origen & St. Epiphanius reasoned that these might have been children of Joseph, while St. Jerome & St. Augustine reasoned that they might have been Jesus’ cousins). But, what the Early Christians all held in common was that Mary, the Mother of God, was/is perpetual virgin.
Cade_One,
re: “When you say ‘Scriptural reason’, what do you mean?”
There has to be some reason from the start to think that the brothers mentioned are not the Messiah’s biological brothers. Why not just accept that as literal? What scriptures cause it to be questioned? Your Matthew, Mark and John references certainly don’t suggest anything of the kind.
When the angel Gabriel announced to Mary that she will (future) have a Son, Mary was clearly confused Luke 1:34. This only makes sense if she was to remain a virgin. If she wasn’t going to remain a virgin, Gabriel’s announcement would have be met with excitement.
This is something I’ve not read, but will. I have however read Blessed Anne Catherine Emmerich. The Life of the Blessed Virgin Mary. She describes her Visions of Mary as a young girl raised in the temple. But her mother Anne was alive. According to the visions St. Anne saw the baby Jesus. Joseph, although husband and wife, never consummated the marriage.
The Virgin Mary, was a Virgin before and after birth.
I’m hoping that this info is helpful and you will read the book.
Jesus told Maria Valtorta that while Catherine Emmerich was another true spokesperson of His, unfortunately, her writings were tampered with by Clemens Bretano, and “very little is true” now.
Thankfully, we have Maria Valtorta’s God-Authored Works, and they can be read for free online:
There actually is a very specific circumstance in Jewish where celibacy must be observed after the birth of a firstborn son. Deuteronomy 25 lays down the rules for something called a Leviarite marriage. In this, when a woman’s husband dies without a son, she is to marry her former husband’s brother and bear a son for her original husband. This child, while biologically the son of the brother-in-law is named as a son of the deceased husband. After the wife bears this son, however, the marriage must remain celibate. There are a few hints in Matthew’s infancy narrative that Joseph is to treat this marriage as Leviarite.
When Joseph awoke, he did as the angel of the Lord had commanded him and took his wife into his home.
He had no relations with her until she bore a son, and he named him Jesus.
Matthew 1:24-25
The formulation of marriage as “taking into his home” and the fact that Joseph named Jesus points to the Leviarite nature of Joseph and Mary’s marriage. Joseph does not have an opportunity to beget a child upon Mary before she becomes pregnant. As such, he was then required to raise Jesus while remaining celibate with Mary. In this reading, Joseph (the just man) is treating the Father as his brother.
This is reinforced by John the Baptist by speaking to the exalted nature of Jesus’s sandal,
John answered them all, saying,l "I am baptizing you with water, but one mightier than I is coming. I am not worthy to loosen the thongs of his sandals. He will baptize you with the holy Spirit and fire.
Luke 3:16
The importance here is that Deuteronomy ties the sandal to the passing down of sonship from deceased father to Leviarite son. The glory of Jesus’s sandal is the glory of the Father, despite being raised by Joseph.