Both said the early gestation unborn babes were vegetables and animals.
Both said that conscience is primary even justifying intrinsic evil actions.
Both said that lying is always wrong in every case (the Bible says otherwise)
Can you give me situations please? Iâm not saying you are making it up, but I like to go to the source to see what they actually said. Thanks : )
Perhaps they shared my view of immoral actions, that they are still sinful, but sometimes necessary (or perceived in the moment as necessary). Situational ethics is a thing that modern Jesuits push. I believe the ends to not justify the means and maybe this is what Aquinas and Augustine also believed when it comes to lying.
Augustine tells this story to provide a saintly witness for his argument that lying is always morally wrong, regardless of the circumstances, and to note that God is perfectly capable of extricating from trouble those who stand fast in the truth. His treatise has been widely cited ever since, and his viewpoint was endorsed by no less saintly a scholar than Thomas Aquinas. In the monumental Summa Theologiae, Thomas states the same position: âTherefore it is not lawful to tell a lie in order to deliver another from any danger whatever. Nevertheless it is lawful to hide the truth prudently, by keeping it back, as Augustine saysâ (II:110:3). Is Lying Ever Right? | Catholic Answers Magazine
1 Like
Your first statement isnât correct; he said a fetus first has a vegetative soul, then an animal soul, and finally a rational soul when the body is sufficiently developed. Thatâs not the same as âbeing a vegetableââŚbut still, yeah he was off thereâŚ
I have no idea what your second statement means. Can you clarify?
Re. your third statement, the Bible does not say otherwise. In fact, it condemns lying many times overâŚbut I think the reality of it is much more nuanced, and so have many others, including saints.
Also, is there an overall point here? They werenât always rightâŚand?
Hi Bill5,
My first statement is absolutely correct in which they say they are not human but vegetables and animals and therefore can be aborted early without the crime of murder. Aquinas and Augustine horribly followed Aristotle instead of the Bible and many Saints before them who told the real truth. Biden and Pelosi still use this argument to endorse abortion. It is horrible.
The second point is that they said conscience is primary and must always be followed into intrinsic evil such as abortion. If the mother sincerely believes that she should abort then she must abort, which is Satanic.
Two Biblical truths prove that lying can be Godly and rewarded by GodâŚ
-
The midwives lied to Pharaoh about not killing the Jewish newborns and God rewarded them.
-
**20 **God was good to the midwives. So the people increased in number and became very strong. **21 **Because the midwives feared God, he gave them families of their own. Exodus 1:15-22
-
Rahab lied and was rewarded by God
But the woman had taken the two men and hidden them. She said, âYes, the men came to me, but I did not know where they had come from. Joshua 2:4.
- Though Rahab utters a lie, Scripture repeatedly highlights her faith. Hebrews 11:31 praises her âBy faith the prostitute Rahab, because she welcomed the spies in peace, did not perish with those who were disobedient.â Similarly, James 2:25 names her in the context of living faith: âIn the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute justified by her actions when she welcomed the messengers and sent them off by another route?â
The point is that there are many false ideas going around in Catholic circles and they must be exposed for the horror they are.
Thanks for asking. Please let me know if you have any more questions.
You first statement is glaringly false and repeating doesnât make that any less so.
Your second alleged point is just as obviously wrong.
Generally, if you want false ideas and âhorror,â look in a mirror. Youâre either a troll or grossly ignorant. Do us all a favor a spew such gibberish elsewhere.
You are an enemy of the truth and a sociopathic insulter. Go spew your filth on yourself where it belongs.
One can condemn these noble saints because their conceptions differed to some degree from the ever-evolving instructions of âthe churchâ. But before we dismiss them, perhaps we should try to understand their devotion and love for Jesus, which in the long run is more meaningful to Jesus and to God than the differences of opinion on other issues.
I feel like slinging insults & name-calling is not helpful. Both of you are welcome here.
âAlways be ready to give an explanation to anyone who asks you for a reason for your hope, BUT do it with gentleness and reverence, keeping your conscience clear, so that, when you are maligned, those who defame your good conduct in Christ may themselves be put to shame.â â 1 Peter 3:15-16
I usually respond to comments in the same mode as they were offered because it is indicative of the commenters disposition which I did in this case.
Thank you for your caution against insults. I was well said.
I condemned their doctrines not themselves. Every Catholic is obliged to counter false doctrines, especially ones that are so serious. I always warn of phony doctrines are harmful to souls.
Thank you for your concern.
âYou have heard that it was said, âAn eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.â But I say to you, offer no resistance to one who is evil. When someone strikes you on [your] right cheek, turn the other one to him as well.â â Matthew 5:38-39
Iâm not saying that either of you are âevilâ persons 
⌠charitably. Not by slinging insults and names. Iâve done it myself. I might have done it yesterday on Twitter (before apologizing ; ) It actually worked out though. Another fervent Catholic Christian swooped in and dialed it up to about an eleven, and I dialed back down to about a one (so the gentleman began to listen more to what I had to say than the sounding gong that crashed into the conversation like a wrecking ball). It became kind of a good cop/bad cop type of scenario.
I love the âgood copâ âbad copâ approach. It often works very well.
âLove one another as I have loved you.â
I donât wish to disturb anyoneâs mind. I am an outsider myself. I know that you guys go by the books and the guidelines of your superiors, past and present. My concept is that God is God whether one calls him Jehovah, Allah, Rama, Yaweh, Elohim, etc., all these names refer to the Creator of all that be, who loves all of us, white, black, Asian, etc., gives all of us the food that we eat, who is the ultimate owner of all the wealth in the universe, who makes the rain fall and the grass grow. And our purpose in life is to love Him. Jesus says that love of God is the most important principle. If someone calls Him by a different name, my conviction is that He is most moved by the amount of love we have for Him. The rules of morality are quite common for the different denominations. But Jesus says that being âgoodâ , doing âgood worksâ isnât sufficient. God wants our love first and foremost. Re different doctrines, these will inevitably change depending on the historic period, the geographic location, and the culture that is receiving spiritual teachings. As you know there is one passage in which Jesus says that we may say that we did this in his name, and we did that in his name, keeping rules, rules, rules, rulesâŚbut Jesus says, âI never knew you!â As you also know, there have been many wars fought and people killed in the name of our religions. I am sure that neither Jesus nor His eternal loving Father derives any pleasure from such behavior which is officially done in his name. âBlessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called sons of Godâ (Matthew 5:9)
He slung first.
Why donât you send him a message not to insult?
[Peter1]
I will not believe a word that you or Cade1 say until you send a message to the one who started the insults. Where is your sense of fair play? Where is accountability?
Why donât you admonish that other guy otherwise your words to me are empty.
I believe I said âbothâ need to speak gently and âneitherâ are evil. Maybe you two should meet up and hug it out ; )