Another question to add to my list of questions

Yes, I’m reading it right now. It’s a good read so far. It’s slow, but I’m only into like….the 3rd Chapter, so not deep into it yet.

Today must be a God-given day, cause I have $103 on a Visa Gift card. I might use it to buy the autobiography of Maria Valtorta, not sure what I want to do yet. I really would like to use it on this one website, which would be awesome if I can.

But yeah, so far it’s an excellent read!

Quick Note: The only reason why I chose The Catholic World Report is because, if I was a Catholic and wanted to get news on not just global Catholic News but also news from regarding The Vatican, that would be what I would use. It seems like it would be a valid news source, which it might be, but as far as Maria Valtorta, still not 100% completely sure. But like I said, I will read it for myself and decide for myself what she’s saying, cause sometimes these authors can be funny about stuff like this, plus it’s just honest if I’m reading it myself instead of just taking some random person’s word too.

Happy to hear it!

And, if you have any questions as you read, feel free to ask.

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Peace to all ,

Thanks Soul, I was looking in Maria Valtorta’s writings. What does she speak of in the wedding of in Cana Thanks in advance.

Jesus says:

"That Work is Me.

It is not only I who say it and illustrate it, but it is I who live it,
I, presenting myself as I was in my mortal days…"

Peace always,
Stephen

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Of course! I’m kind of excited!

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In The Poem of the Man-God: Vol. 1, ch. 51 is titled Judas Thaddeus at Bethsaida to Invite Jesus to the Wedding at Cana, and ch. 52 is titled Jesus at the Wedding at Cana.

Mary’s Role: A central theme in Valtorta’s account (and subsequent interpretations in her writings) is that the miracle occurred because of Mary’s intercession and great faith. Jesus later explains that He never refuses His Mother anything and wanted to demonstrate her power and association with His divine mission to the world,

Key themes and details from her account include:

  • Change in Relationship: Jesus indicates a transition from being a son subject to His mother to being the Messiah subject to the Father. He uses the word “still” in the phrase “What is there still between me and you?” to emphasize that His time of private, domestic life is over.
  • The Power of Mary’s Intercession: The miracle is presented as a gift to Mary, showing that Jesus honors her requests even when His “hour” has not yet formally arrived. Valtorta depicts this as the “miracle of Mary’s persuasiveness”.
  • Detailed Observation: Valtorta describes the scene vividly, noting that Jesus and Mary were moderate in eating and drinking while observing the guests. She mentions Mary’s attentiveness in noticing the wine shortage early and her quiet, humble approach to Jesus to avoid embarrassing the bridal couple.
  • Symbolism of Transformation: The change of water to wine is portrayed as a foreshadowing of Jesus’ power to transform the human spirit and as a sign of the abundant grace He brings to the world.
  • Spiritual Lessons: The account emphasizes Mary’s instruction to “Do whatever He tells you,” which Valtorta frames as a universal plea for all people to obey the Gospel.

Key details from Valtorta’s description include:

  • Mary’s Perception: Mary is portrayed as highly perceptive and the first to notice the wine is running out, even before most guests are aware, as the servants are trying to be discreet.
  • Jesus and Mary’s Demeanor: Both Jesus and Mary are described as present, well-mannered, and modest guests, eating and drinking sparingly but courteously participating in the celebration.
  • Dialogue and Intercession: The dialogue between Mary and Jesus is expanded. When Mary informs Jesus, “They have no wine,” Jesus’ response emphasizes that His “hour has not yet come,” a reference to his public mission and eventual crucifixion. Mary, with great faith and certainty in her Son’s power, immediately tells the servants, “Do whatever He tells you”.
  • The Miracle: Jesus instructs the servants to fill the six stone jars with water from the well (Valtorta even notes hearing the pulley screeching). When the water is drawn out and tasted by the headwaiter, it has become superior wine, much to his astonishment.
  • Mary’s Role: A central theme in Valtorta’s account (and subsequent interpretations in her writings) is that the miracle occurred because of Mary’s intercession and great faith. Jesus later explains that He never refuses His Mother anything and wanted to demonstrate her power and association with His divine mission to the world.
  • Departure: After the miracle is acknowledged, Jesus stands up and withdraws from the banquet, saying, "Thank MKey details from Valtorta’s description include:
  • Mary’s Perception: Mary is portrayed as highly perceptive and the first to notice the wine is running out, even before most guests are aware, as the servants are trying to be discreet.
  • Jesus and Mary’s Demeanor: Both Jesus and Mary are described as present, well-mannered, and modest guests, eating and drinking sparingly but courteously participating in the celebration.
  • Dialogue and Intercession: The dialogue between Mary and Jesus is expanded. When Mary informs Jesus, “They have no wine,” Jesus’ response emphasizes that His “hour has not yet come,” a reference to his public mission and eventual crucifixion. Mary, with great faith and certainty in her Son’s power, immediately tells the servants, “Do whatever He tells you”.
  • The Miracle: Jesus instructs the servants to fill the six stone jars with water from the well (Valtorta even notes hearing the pulley screeching). When the water is drawn out and tasted by the headwaiter, it has become superior wine, much to his astonishment.
  • Mary’s Role: A central theme in Valtorta’s account (and subsequent interpretations in her writings) is that the miracle occurred because of Mary’s intercession and great faith. Jesus later explains that He never refuses His Mother anything and wanted to demonstrate her power and association with His divine mission to the world.
  • Departure: After the miracle is acknowledged, Jesus stands up and withdraws from the banquet, saying, “Thank Mary,” before departing with his disciples, leaving his mother with a smile and a “Goodbye, Mother” on the threshold. ary," before departing with his disciples, leaving his mother with a smile and a “Goodbye, Mother” on the threshold.

Key details she speaks of include:

  • The Transition of Authority: Valtorta describes this event as the moment Jesus is “no longer subject to His Mother” in a legal or parental sense, but instead belongs to His Heavenly Father’s mission.
  • The Specific Dialogue: She presents a unique translation of Jesus’ response to Mary: “Woman, what is there still between me and you?”. She interprets this “still” as a marker that their private life in Nazareth has ended and His messianic hour is beginning.
  • The Power of Mary’s Intercession: Valtorta highlights that Mary’s faith was so certain she did not view Jesus’ initial response as a refusal. She describes Mary’s “persuasiveness” as a gift from God to show that Jesus refuses His Mother nothing.
  • Atmosphere and Character: The text describes the physical setting with “impeccable details,” portraying Jesus and Mary as quiet and moderate guests at the banquet compared to others. She notes a respectful greeting between them where a kiss “trembles on Mary’s lips” but is not given, symbolizing their new spiritual dynamic.
  • The Symbolism of the Wine: Jesus explains to Valtorta that the miracle is a symbol that Mary is the “key to miracles” and that He brought forward the “time of grace” specifically because of her prayer.

Besides I wanted to make Her power known to the world together with Mine. Since She was destined to be joined to Me in the flesh, it was fair She should be joined to Me in the power that is shown to the world. Because We were one flesh: I in Her, She around Me, like the petals of a lily round its scented lively pistil; and She was united to Me in sorrow: because we were both on the cross, I with My body, She with Her soul, as a lily is scented because of its corolla and because of the essence extracted from it.

I say to you what I said to the other guests: “Thank Mary. It is through Her that you had with you the Master of the miracle and you have My graces, particularly those of forgiveness.”

Rest in peace. We are with you.»

Peace to all,

« Woman, what is there still between Me and You?» says Jesus.

Perhaps old world Galalean Aramaic?, will you marry me, spiritually? I believe.

Maria Valtorta makes it logically clear, Jesus and Mary are spiritually married in Cana.

« Woman, what is there still between Me and You?» Jesus, when saying these words, smiles even more gently, and Mary smiles too, like two people aware of some truth which is their joyful secret and is ignored by everyone else.

Jesus explains the meaning of the sentence to me.

« That “still”, which is omitted by many translators, is the keyword of the sentence and explains its true meaning." Maria Valtorta

OMNiLogically, Mary transforms through The New Eve for Jesus in The New Adam for all becoming through The Christ becoming again for glorification and transfiguration in all One Holy Spirit Family One God in being.

Mary and Jesus become the First Christ, from Jesus, The Eternal Priestly Authority through Mary in The Immaculate Conception we become One Body through the Christ for all mankind.

Logically The Wedding of Cana is the Spiritual marriage of The New« Woman, what is there still between Me and You?» Eve and The New Adam from incorruption through immortality in One Body of Christ in all mankind, becoming again in all Creation One Holy Spirit Family One God in being.

The Wedding in Cana is the becoming of the Christ in all mankind, OMNiLogically.

When Jesus arrives, the same watchman as before, informs the others. The landlord, with his son, the bridegroom, and Mary goes down to meet Him, and greets Him respectfully. He then greets the other two and so does the bridegroom. But what I like is the loving and respectful way in which Jesus and Mary exchange their greetings. There are no effusions, but the words « Peace be with You» are pronounced with a look and a smile worth one hundred embraces and one hundred kisses. A kiss trembles on Mary’s lips, but it is not given. She only lays Her little white hand on Jesus, shoulder and lightly touches a curl of His long hair. The caress of a chaste lover.


The Christ, Mary and Jesus

« Woman, what is there still between Me and You?»

Peace always,
Stephen

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Precisely! And, think of the countless people, let alone Catholic lay faithful, who read that press release. Many would read it and either automatically take their word for it, rather than investigate Maria Valtorta on their own, or stop reading her writings if they already were. I personally met people online who didn’t bother to investigate Maria Valtorta after reading the press release, and I came across a post by someone who read the press release and said they stopped reading Maria’s writings afterward. But, as frustrating and saddening as it is, I cannot let the press release by the Dicastery of the Faith disturb my peace, and pray that they and others will recognize the Work for what it truly is.

I’ll start by addressing a few of the claims by Sandra Miesel in her article in The Catholic World Report below.

  • Miesel said the following:

The Poem titillates with several invented subplots of ‘delicate’ maidens barely escaping the Fate Worse Than Death and guilt-ridden harlots’ descents into utter degradation. In one especially tasteless moment, Herod tries to tempt captive Jesus with his lascivious African dancing girls who "touch Christ lightly with their nude bodies. (V: p. 562)

So, all we have from Miesel is her baseless assertion of “several invented subplots of ‘delicate’ maidens barely escaping the fate worse than death and guilt-ridden harlots”, and her one example which was a partial quote from a scene in Maria Valtorta’s writings, because if she had quoted it in full, it wouldn’t have given the false impression that she wanted. See excerpt below:

They untie His hands. And while a large number of servants bring amphorae and cups, some dancers come in…covered with nothing: a many-coloured linen fringe is the only garment girding their thin waists and hips. Nothing else. As they are Africans they are of bronze complexion and are as agile as young gazelles, and they begin a silent lascivious dance.

Jesus refuses the cups and closes His eyes without speaking. Herod’s courtiers laugh at His disdain.

«Take the woman You wish. Live! Learn how to live! …» suggests Herod.

Jesus seems a statue. With folded arms, closed eyes, He does not stir even when the lewd dancers touch Him lightly with their nude bodies.

«Enough. I treated You as God, and You did not act as God. I treated You as a man, and you have not acted as a man. You are mad. A white garment. Clothe Him with it so that Pontius Pilate may know that the Tetrarch took his subject to be mad. Centurion, please tell the Proconsul that Herod humbly presents his respect to him and venerates Rome. Go.»

And Jesus, tied once again, goes out, with a linen tunic reaching down to His knees, on top of His red woollen garment.

And they go back to Pilate. (The Poem of the Man-God: Vol. 5 )

  • Miesel accused Maria Valtorta of writing homoerotica saying, “vaguely homoerotic flavor of Christ’s frequent kisses, cuddles, and caresses of his disciples”. So, according to Miesel’s logic, for example, when her mom gave her kisses, cuddles, and caresses, she was displaying homoeroticism… :roll_eyes:. This is a non-argument by Miesel and can be safely ignored.

  • Miesel said the following:

Despite claiming a purely celestial origin, the Poem somehow incorporates legendary material from the Apocrypha (ex." The Acts of St. Paul and Thecla), The Golden Legend, The Meditations of Pseudo-Bonaventure, the revelations of St. Birgitta, […]

She didn’t present any examples for this in her article, and therefore what good are those claims?

  • Miesel said the following:

(Is she borrowing from Carmen when Mary Magdalen tries to attract Jesus’ notice by throwing a rose at him?)

In Bizet’s opera Carmen, Carmen throws a red carnation at the soldier Don José in Act I to seduce him and convince him to let her escape after she is arrested for a fight. The Poem of the Man-God consists of visions of scenes from Jesus’s life on earth that Maria Valtorta received and described in-depth. The vision that Miesel is referring to is ch. 98 in The Poem of the Man-God: Vol. 1 titled Jesus on the Lake of Tiberias. Lesson to His Disciples near the Same Town. Below is an excerpt:

A few small leisure boats, almost the size of a shallop, but fitted with purple canopies and soft cushions, cut across the course of the fishermen’s boats. Shouts, bursts of laughter and the smell of perfumes go by with them.

They are full of beautiful women, many merry Romans, some Palestinians and a few Greeks. This I gather so from the words of a thin slender young man, as brown as an almost ripe olive, smartly dressed in a short red tunic, bordered by a heavy Greek fret and held tight at his waist by a belt, which is the masterpiece of a goldsmith. He says: « Hellas is beautiful! But not even my Olympic fatherland has this blue and these flowers. It is really not surprising that the goddesses left it to come here. Let us spread flowers, roses and our compliments to the goddesses, no longer Greek but Judaean…» And he spreads on the women in his boat the petals of magnificent roses and he throws some into a nearby boat.

A Roman replies to him: « Spread them, spread them, Greek! But Venus is with me. I do not spread roses, I pick them from this beautiful mouth. It is sweeter! » And he bends down to kiss the open smiling lips of Mary of Magdala, who is leaning on cushions with her blond head in the lap of the Roman.

In summary, a Greek man (not Mary Magdalene), threw roses on the women in his boat and in another nearby boat of his party (not at Jesus to attract His notice ). Therefore, either Miesel deliberately lied about what Maria Valtorta wrote—especially considering that she didn’t cite the volume and chapter of this scene which she was referring to in her article—or she has severe poor reading comprehension.

  • Miesel said the following:

Valtorta repeatedly compares Jews unfavorably with Romans: “Hebrew wombs conceive vile perjurers. Roman wombs conceive nothing but heroes.” (V: p. 790)

The vision that Miesel is referring to is ch. 627 in The Poem of the Man-God: Vol. 5 titled The Apostles Go along the Way of the Cross. Below is an excerpt:

A group of legionaries, on their way to a nearby inn, meets them, and one watches them and points them out to the others. And they all laugh. And when the poor ill-treated disciples are compelled to pass before them, one of the soldiers leaning against the door addresses them: «Hey! Calvary did not stone you and men have struck you? By Jove! I thought you were more courageous! And that you were not afraid of anything, since you had the courage to climb up there. Have the stones of the mountain not reproached you for being cowardly? And were you so daring as to go up there? I have always seen guilty people run away from the places that reminded them of their sin. Nemesis pursues them. Perhaps she dragged you up there to make you tremble with horror today, since you did not tremble with pity, then.»

A woman, probably the mistress of the tavern, comes to the door and laughs. She has the frightening face of a rascal and she shouts in a shrill voice: «Hebrew women, look at what your wombs produce! Vile perjurers, who come out of their dens when the danger is over! Roman wombs conceive nothing but heroes. Come and drink to the greatness of Rome. Choice wines and beautiful girls.. .» and she goes away, followed by the soldiers, into her dark cave.

A Hebrew woman looks at them—there are some women in the street with amphorae, where one can hear the fountain gurgle near the house of the Supper room—and she takes pity on them. She is an elderly woman. She says to her companions: «They made a mistake… but a whole people did wrong.» She approaches the apostles and greets them: «Peace to you. We do not forget… Tell us only this. Has the Master really risen from the dead?»

«He has risen. We swear to it.»

«Then, be not afraid. He is God, and God will triumph. Peace to you, brothers. And tell the Lord to forgive this people. »

«And we ask you to pray that the people may forgive us and forget the scandal we have given. Women, I, Simon Peter, ask you to forgive me.» And Peter weeps…

« We are mothers and sisters and wives, man. And your sin is that of our sons, brothers and husbands. May the Lord have mercy on everybody. »

In summary, Maria Valtorta was quoting the words of a woman she saw and heard speaking to a group of Hebrew women and Roman legionaries when she wrote the following:

A woman, probably the mistress of the tavern, comes to the door and laughs. She has the frightening face of a rascal, and she shouts in a shrill voice: ‘Hebrew women, look at what your wombs produce! Vile perjurers, who come out of their dens when the danger is over! Roman wombs conceive nothing but heroes. Come and drink to the greatness of Rome. Choice wines and beautiful girls…’ and she goes away, followed by the soldiers, into her dark cave.

Miesel slyly claimed that “Valtorta repeatedly compares Jews unfavorably with Romans”, followed by giving an example, which was her own alteration of the quote above, in order to make it sound as if it was Maria’s own personal opinion: “‘Hebrew wombs conceive vile perjurers. Roman wombs conceive nothing but heroes’ (V: p. 790).”

These are just a few examples of grade A deceptiveness by Miesel about Maria Valtorta, but her claims are easily exposed to be just that, if one has read The Poem of the Man-God and is an honest, objective investigator. I’m going to finish addressing every claim in Miesel’s article and send it to either her directly or The Catholic World Report where her article was published.

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