Peace to all,
So so true, Mike,
Logically, until we see the Holy Spirit as The Family of God and understand the Mother has always been together with the Father and the Son in One Family, OMNILogically, faithful understanding is all that is possible, and all we need, I believe.
But OMNILogically? The Family of One God One Holy Spirit Family is from three Gods, I believe.
The two Sacraments from death to life are Baptism and Penance, Baptism transforms flesh immortal from The New Eve allowing death through the Baptized New Eve becoming resurrection from Penance through Sacrifice forgiven in all mankind in the New Adam for Jesus through the Christ in all mankind becoming immortally glorified and incorruptibly transfigured completing Transubstantiationās logical formulas becoming in all through two natures, Spirit and Life, in One Holy Spirit Family One God in being, OMNILogically, i believe and I say quite off the cuff, I can go deeper into detail more logically for any further questions, I believe.
I believe Logically visible God is through or by contact of all or even any of the senses through The Host, the āChosenā fufilled New Living Sacrifice resurrects through two natures becoming transforming glorifying and transfiguration for all becoming again from Transubstatiations logical formulas through The Host, the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of God becoming as One God and Family, I believe.
To me, rationally, The true essence and the spirit of the Holy Family are transubstantiated in all through both natures true essence spiritually and outward characteristics through the flesh becoming again in all One Holy Spirit Family One God in being, I believe.
What is your logical take on OMNILogic? Anyone? Donāt be shy?
Peace always,
Stephen
Only God spirit can help you, Stephen.
From the moment of birth, we begin dying. It just takes some time. The truth is that for the soul, there is never birth nor death. And the next truth is that we are not these material bodies. We are pure spirit soul, temporarily embodied in a material container. And one who identifies with the material container, the material vehicle as āmeā, that soul is in illusion.
Spirit is conscious. Matter is not. Sprit is alive. Matter is dead. What is this body? Approximately 80% water, and some other material elements. Ashes to ashes, dust to dust. When the spirit soul resides in a material body, the consciousness of the spirit soul is experiences itself through the material form. This causes the spirit soul to identify with the body as āmeā, and to seek satisfaction in life through the demands of the flesh. This the enslavement of the spirit in the service of Mammon. The more any of the saints in history advanced in spiritual revelation, the immediate symptom is that they became progressively indifferent to the demands of the flesh. Why? Because they began to experience the pleasure of the spirit, and began to hanker only for that pleasure. One who has not had this experience, has hardly begun his spiritual journey, whether he calls himself a Catholic or not.
For the spirit there is not death. The spirit is eternal, without birth and without death. The body was never alive. It only seems to be alive as long as the spirit resides within it. As soon as the spirit departs, we see the true nature of the material body. No one wants to embrace it.
What we call death, is nothing more than the passing away of the eternal spirit soul, from the dead material container. But because we identify with the material body as āmeā, we think that the body is the person. And therefore we think that the āpersonā has died. The soul is eternal. It never dies. We are not this material form. We are eternal spirit souls.
What REALLY is DEATH? There is really no such thing. The body was never alive. And the soul never dies.
There is one verse in scripture. God is saying, āBefore you were born, I knew you.ā We existed as individual beings before we entered this material form.
Peace be to all.
In Galatians 2:20, St. Paul says, āit is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me.ā, this is a beautiful quote from the Bible and it also touches base on the subject at hand about death.
Why death? As Catholics we are called to live for Christ and all biblical evidence suggests to live for Christ one must first die to self. This does not mean a physical death but an otherworldly death of spiritual pride to be reborn again to follow the right path of spirituality which always leads to Christ.
Take Revelation 2:10, it is written, āBe faithful unto death, and I will give you the crown of life.ā, this can be interpreted literally where if you are martyred for Christ you will go to heaven, as well as symbolically that if you are born again in Christ you will have received the crown of life which Christ is himself.
These verses point to two realities in life: a reality in which we are alive and a reality in which we are dead. Now a little bit about whatās not written, that everyone who knows Christ who is life itself is saved and are recipients of life, only one of the two thieves at the time of crucifixion was saved but both knew Christ and only one opened heart to Christ.
So, what is death? As Catholics we have already experienced that at some point in our life because before we were saved when we were alive without Christ we were in fact dead, we do not remember it because it scales in comparison to life with Christ who himself is life, love and everything in-between.
When we die, physically we are inanimate, our bodies decay and we return back to soil, that much is obvious. However, spiritually, we are eternal and our souls live forever, which brings into question as youāve rightfully asked, what exactly happens at death? Itās beautiful beyond comprehension what really happens after death. If you imagine the state of your own soul when you were dead without Christ and then simply inverse it now you are no longer dead but alive with Christ in perfect union in a state of eternal bliss. This complete union only happens at the time of each and every one of our deaths.
We will of course be cleansed in purgatory beforehand therefore our eternal souls will perpetuate forever and we will be perfectly unified with Christ, joyous, blissful, and complete union. Thatās what really happens after death.
Peace to all,
To me, logically the soul is Holy Spirit created from blood and water birth through the created also flesh. We are created through two natures in One Body, I believe.
To me, The Christ is OMNILogically more than Jesus. The Christ is Jesus logically coneceived, from the Power.
The Spirit becomes again in all One Body, I believe.
Peace always,
Stephen
I think that everyone who has died truly knows whether there is a heaven. @Jacques said he thinks nobody really knows.
Peace to all,
So true Literalman, maybe so true.
We always ask and never truly know?
Perhaps, as Disciples we have already been told?
To my thinking, All mankind becomes Sons and Daughters of God through The Christ, Our Brother, Son of Man from Heaven, we, all mankind has the logical Same Father as Jesus making us all sons and daughters of God, The Father, Man from Heaven through Mary, The New Eve in all transformed immaculate immortality from Our Mother for The Son in all, OMNILogically, I believe, through all generalizations, rationally thinking.
To my thinking, I believe, an example of Co-redemption through Lord Mary, the First Disciple in the Chrsit, the First Chrst, on earth in āThe Mind of Godā, when Mary says, āLet it, logical undefiled intelligence, flesh and spirit, become to me Your Will not my willā making Mary through the Annunciation Sanctified Immortally and incorruptibly through the Power of The Holy Spirit in Maryās soul for the Immaculate Conception and God of Mercy and The Mother of God. And through the Power of the Divine Family, OMNILogically delivered to earth is through the Logical formulas of the Wondrous Mysteries through the Faith of Catholicism and is Arked to earth from the undefiled logical intelligence in āThe Mind of Godā becoming through the Immaculate Conception through the Body through the flesh and spirit in the soul of the New Eve becoming through all mankind becoming flesh immortality for all becoming again, through the manifesting logic becoming through all in One God, I believe.
Becoming from the Gods of Trinity Family Powers in all mankind and angels, all is creation becoming alive in mankind all living inside of us through flesh and spirit transformation in two natures, Spirit and Life, becoming One New Eve Body through Mary becoming immortal glorification and incorruptible transfiguration through The New Adam, Jesus becoming The Christ in all mankind becoming again loving only and loving with only the most love in all One Undeflied Two Nature Divine Family, Statically unfailing forever yet dynamically pulsing through His Passion forever and ever through Two Natures in One Family, OMNILogicalGod, I believe.
Jesus answered speaking about whom? Pointing to whom? I believe, logically Jesus is pointing to all disciples, pointing to all discilpes He loves with only the most love, never dying, Jesus always saying, āWhat is it to you, if I want him to live until I return? You must follow me,ā I believe.
Maybe even death itself wanted eternal life for all through two natures by telling the truth and a lie in the same sentenance, and what a liar he is āSurely you will never die?ā that is never dying of the Spirit, becoming alive again for both natures through the flesh, in One Two Nature Family Body, I believe.
Peace always,
Stephen
There is no such thing as death. The material body is made of material elements. Take these elements into a laboratory, and try to demonstrate the symptoms of life. It is not possible. The real understanding of spiritual life is that āI am not this body.ā Just like Jesus says: āI am in this world; but I am not of this world.ā The same applies to us: we are in this world, but we are not of this world. We are not these temporal material forms. We are eternal spirit souls.
However,when the spirit soul departs from the material body, if we think that the person is the material bodyā¦we say, āHe has died.ā
The truth is that for the material elements there is no such thing as life. And for the spiritual energy, the spirit soul, there is no such thing as death. We are eternal. Whether we are in heaven or in hellā¦we are eternal. There is no such thing as death. The concept of ādeathā is held by those who mistakenly think of the the material body, the material container, as the person.
A little common sense is required. Take 100 pounds of earth from your back yard. And take it to the lab. Ask the scientists to make it conscious and walk around. Mud will never become conscious. This will never happen in a million years. Although the body rots in the grave, total composting processā¦ā¦..the soul is eternal. This means: āI am not this body.ā As long as we identify with the material body as āmeā, we try find satisfaction and pleasure by gratifying our material senses. And all the Catholic saints in the history books have shown by their lives, that the more their spiritual pleasure increases, the less they are concerned about the desires of the material senses. No more concerns about hot and cold, fancy foods, fancy clothesā¦ā¦no more sex desire. Because they have learned how to be spiritually satisfied by having a direct relationship of loving reciprocation with God. This is called āself-realizationā. One baby emerges from the womb full of life. Another is stillbornā¦ā¦ā¦no soul inside. The body is merely a vehicle. without the ādriverā inside, the symptoms of life are absent. No one loves a dead body. Even if it was the body of a beauty queen. No soul. Spirit and matter are two different energies of God. One is conscious, alive and eternal. The other is dead matter, never conscious, and its forms are temporary. Jesus says that the truth will set us free. Free of what? Free of the demands of the senses, free of competition for acquiring the things of this earth, and free of the fear of death. This is kindergarten.
Death is simply a transition.
This is nonsense! Simply the blind following the blind. Besides, the scriptures have been translated and re-translated, altered, and re-interpreted, to suite āKing Jamesā, and similar politically motivated persons, both inside and outside the church. God does not have to breathe life into our nostrils. He puts us into the combination of the sperm cell and the womanās egg at the moment of conception. The cells divide, and body takes shape, according to the dictates of the genetic āprogrammingā of the mother and father. The soul inside that little body endures this, comes out of the womb when the body is ready to eat and digest and breath on its own. Then the body grows, then matures, then becomes old, then diseasedā¦..then the eternal soul departs to heaven or hell, and the body becomes a lump of dead meat, fit for three possible destinations: 1) buried and eaten by worms and molds, and again becomes earth; 2) burnt and turned into ashes; 3) thrown to the dogs and vultures (natureās clean-up crew) who eat it and excrete it as fecal matter. That is the destination of the material body: earth, ashes or stool. Anyone who has seen a dead body will not say, āHere is a living soul.ā
If by āre-translatedā you mean translated into one language and from that translated into a third language, it has happenedāfor example, St. Jerome translated the Scriptures into Latin, because it had become the everyday language of so many people, and the English Douay version was translated from St. Jeromeās Latin. However, many other translations (including, I think, all the main ones in use today) were new translations from the original languages. The King James version was a new translation from the Greek and Hebrew. And it was also called the Authorized Version because he authorized the translation. I donāt think he had to approve the translated text. English changes, but the Scriptures donāt; the King James version is the oldest translation still in wide use today, because it was done so well.
The translations since thenāfor example, the New American Bible, the Jerusalem Bible, the Revised Standard Version, the New International VersionāIāve worked with all of those as a book editor, though the only one I have read cover to cover is the New American Bible. Except that some of them donāt contain the Apocrypha, the differences, in my estimation, are small (though important to people). Pardon the generalization, but the content of all of them is pretty much the same. Some churches did not approve certain versions. A lot of people did not like the Revised Standard Version, and my understanding is that the New International Version was an Evangelical reaction to that.
But which politically motivated persons are you talking about whose approval was needed? I daresay that these versions I mentioned are substantially the same. If the King James version was done to suit King James, what other differences were politically motivated? Iām not saying there are no politically motivated differences, I just donāt know what they are.
Literalman! I was thinking of you yesterday, when I made my brash statements. While on the site, I read some of your comments. And I thought to myself, āSteve is a real gentleman.ā Then I thought, āIf we take the. meaning of the word āgentlemanā literally, Steve is really a gentle man.ā You always speak kindly, and gently. Then I thought to myself, āI can learn from this man.ā
I was not raised with religion, and was raised in a tough way. So sometimes the chip on my shoulder makes an appearance.
I have read descriptions by scientists and doctors, that even when new findings are realized, the old guard simply wonāt accept them. I think they put the doctor (who first postulated the concept of bacteria) into a mental institution.
In the same way people in general donāt think for themselves, as much as they go along (religiously) with the things they have grown up with.
For example, I recently asked AI on my computer why the people in the southeast of the U.S. have hatred for black people. And AI said, it is mostly a question of the values they are taught as children.
Soā¦ā¦what was happening, in my little mind, yesterday, was that I saw that someone posted that the body is not different from the soul, and he quoted Genesis 2.7 to make his point. And I guess I became somewhat indignant (or ignorant). And I began ranting to a degree.
But you are correct in making the point that if I make strong assertions, about motivated interpretations of the Bible, I should be able to back up what I am saying.
When I read about the history of āthe Inquisitionā, which was implemented under the leadership of the Catholic Church, all in the name of being pleasing to Jesusā¦ā¦..I become emotionally reactive. Then I become a little less careful about the things I say.
At the same time, I recently received a reply, from a Catholic Talk participent, telling me that Thomas Aquinas encouraged the acceptance of scientific findings in the place of some of the concepts put forward in the Bible.
Soā¦. sometimes I am more of a fundamentalistā¦..and sometimes I am inclined to use what I consider to be my common senseā¦ā¦e.g., that the chemical elements of the periodic chart do not have consciousnessā¦ that spirit is consciousā¦ā¦and that therefore when the spirit soul resides within the material body, the material body expresses the symptoms of lifeā¦.only as long as the spirit soul inhabits it. I think someone was posting the idea that God ābreathedā life into the material body, and concluded that this means there is no difference between the body and the soul.
We know that when a person dies, the soul goes to heaven or hell, or perhaps purgatory. And the body is completely destroyed, by decay, or fire, or by ingestion by animalsā¦ā¦.So to say that the body and soul are oneā¦ā¦ā¦I guess I have to take a few deep breaths, be more patient, more humbleā¦ā¦I confess that I am a āwork in progress.ā
But againā¦..thank you for your sweet and gentle nature. I am truly grateful to you Steve for being a teacher for meā¦ā¦by your patient example. Peter
Thank you for your kind words. You must be referring to my good twin. (Just kidding. By the way, I thought that Robert Louis Stevensonās book about Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde was good. In the novel, Dr. Jekyll concocted a drug or something that would let one side of his personality dominate. Eventually the bad side, Mr. Hyde, dominated and the good side couldnāt appear at all.)
As for the unity of body and soul, I think that they are united in this life. My body never goes anywhere without my soul. At death they will be separated until the resurrection. I think that the point of the Genesis story about the creation of humans is to show that God made the material and spiritual parts of us and that they are united as God intended, that His plan didnāt include death for us.
Germs were seen under microscopes in the 1600s. I donāt know of anyone who was considered insane for saying that germs exist, but it took a while for their existence to be accepted. By the late 1700s, Dr. Boylston had discovered how to inoculate people against smallpox, and he pretty much stopped an epidemic of it. A lot of New England towns have a Boylston Street named for him.
āSweet and gentle,ā taking deep breaths, reminds me of a friend at work; I was editing something she had written, and in shaping the manuscript, she said to go with my early instincts. I said that my early instincts were to cry and yell till I got what I wanted, and that seemed to work, so I still do it. (Again, just kidding.)
The answer you got from AI is a good example of Artificial Ignorance at work. It is true that in the Southeast U.S. there used to be widespread hatred of blacks by many whites. In the 1950s and 1960s, Virginia and other states had a āmassive resistanceā campaign in which they closed schools rather than racially integrate them. At the time, I was a kid in New York and New Jersey, and there was bigotry there, but not so much, and my parents taught us to treat everyone the same.
By the time I moved to Virginia in 1991 (and I lived there till 2022) it was very different. My neighborhood had houses owned by white, black, and brown people, and people got along. Among the friends I made in Virginia, some were white, some black. There were still some people with animosity toward people who were different from themselves, but widespread hatred I didnāt see.
This is nice to hear! The need to āfind faultā with others, to feel superior by seeing others as inferiorā¦ā¦.this is the symptom of having no sense of a living connection with God. There is one Vedic aphorism in the Sanskrit language: āatmavan manyate jagat.ā It means that one sees or perceives the world in terms of the condition of oneās own mind. Contemporary psychology refers to this as āprojectionā. And ānew ageā people say that the world is our mirror.
If āthe devilā influences our way of thinking, this indicates that we are not in communion with God. Thatās when he creeps in to do his work.
To see spiritually means to see each other in terms of our spiritual potential. This is how Jesus sees all of us. And he tries to fan that flame in us. The doctor doesnāt hate the patient for being ill. He sees the patient in terms of his healthy potential, and tries to bring that into focus.
A person who is drawing closer to God, will remain humble, but begins to see his own divinity as a child of God. And, as he sees himself in this way, he spontaneously extends this vision to everyone he meets.
The KKK consider themselves to be good Christians. They hold a āwhite supremacistā point of view. At the same time we have golfers like Tiger Woods, basketball players like Michael Jordan, musicians like John Coltrane, Charlie Parker, and Wynton Marcellis, who won the prize for best jazz and classical trumpet in the same year. Then there are brilliant black intellectuals, and black inventors as well.
We simply have to try, with all our heart, to come closer to God. Then all of these anomalies ike xenophobia begin to evaporate.
When I was a university student, I moved into a black area of Montreal and shared an apartment with a few black people. Their ability to celebrate and life, and their joyful spirituality was a teaching to me.
Peter
Peace to all,
So true, Peter1.
How can the one line āSurely you will never die?ā from The Father of Lies be both the truth and a lie?
Adam and Eve will never die?
āIf I want him to live until I come again, whatās that to you? Youāfollow me.ā Jesus
The Disciple following Him to the Cross will never die?
Everyone knows, Jesus keeps the spirit manifesting Power alive through the created souls of all for the created flesh through death from resurrection becoming again in all One Family.
From the Faith of Abraham, Two natures through the Christ from The Host in Communion with Him become again One God.
Peace always,
Stephen
Greetings dear Stephen! May our hearts be filled with Godās presence!