Stupid question (maybe)

General
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So, some of you know me well enough that normally I don’t talk about being gay all that much because I’m not very proud of it. Although, I’m wondering if anyone is well-versed in what I’m about to say.

Is it possible that my body doesn’t produce as much testosterone as a straight man? Do you think that might be a factor? The only reason I ask is because, it would kind of make sense if that was the case. I mean, obviously I produce more testosterone than estrogen, cause I’m a male, but I do kind of wonder if that isn’t a contributing factor… Anyone care to chime in?

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Biology and sexual orientation - Wikipedia

Take care to understand that this is secular science.

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Well…all of this is theory. I mean, there might be something to it, but we still don’t like fully know right? I remember when I talked about this to one of my Aunts, she said something that kind of through me off guard. She said “Probably the prenatal vitamins.” So…I dunno…just was curious is all.

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"If a sufficient amount of testosterone is received by INAH3 at 12 weeks following conception, the testosterone stimulates the enlargement of INAH3, which is known to be involved in directing typical male sex behavior, such as attraction to females. If INAH3 does not receive enough testosterone to override the circulating estrogen, it may not grow to the size typically observed in males. Subsequently, INAH3 may function as female or partially female, potentially causing same-sex attraction to males. Although the size of INAH3 in homosexual men compared to heterosexual men may not be statistically different, homosexual men may have a greater cell density than heterosexual men, though a similar total number of INAH3 neurons.[5] ’

This is the part which looks in line with what you were asking. But as said, there is speculation in this paragraph because they cannot in absolute practical terms know that X leads definitively to Y, with X being the proposed science and Y being the outcome. This is the problem with Wiki. Bold statements as if true. They also stated earlier:

'…evidence is weak for hypotheses that the postnatal social environment impacts sexual orientation, especially for males.[3]'

…this again cannot be stated as if factual.

Secular science can be made up of bold statements which are theories in reality and sometimes nothing much more than stemming from confirmation-bias.

I would say, however, that there is less testosterone in some men and so making some men more prone to…what we would call effeminate behaviourisms. This doesn’t ‘make them gay’ but can bring about a greater need for emotional outlet (women tend to be more emotional and relational; men more self-willed). This greater emotional need might lead to a decreased acceptance in what is already around them that is to bring about that sense of confirmation in their identity (who they are). They may not be able to emotionally deal with a father who isn’t there so much, or neglect or societal pressures and this can lead to jumps into certain avenues because they ‘feel different’. A combination of factors. But replace the word ‘homosexual’ with ‘emotional outlet’ and you probably have there an indication of what is going on. All people have differing levels of testosterone vs oestrogen. This combined with a multiplicity of factors, can lead a person to junctions in their life where suddenly certain options start to appear.

I would sum up the science in that Wiki document as a stepping-stone to more rounded research, peer-review to the extent that it engages with science, while arrogant in its confirmation-bias.

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Well, it’s funny cause, in a way I can’t help but wonder if these people who are pro LGBTQ+ will actually put certain things in our food or drinks which can mess with a man. Like you and I agree, a lot of it is just theory cause we really don’t know exactly what causes it. I think a lot of it has to do with environment and how we were brought up. I know, like, in my Dad’s family, the women are the ones who kind of take charge. And my grandmother brought me up, and they say that when women raise men, they raise them as what they would want from a man to be. And, there’s nothing wrong with that necessarily, cause I think good Mothers and Fathers (or in this case my grandmother) have nothing but the best intentions and my grandmother raised me very well. But, I can’t help but think it’s a combination of a lot of things, I don’t think there’s just one singular thing that makes someone that way.

But thank you Morgan. Forgive me for my naivete but, are you a man or a woman? Either way I wish you lived nearby, cause you’re extremely caring. I’m guessing you’re a Mother (or Father) yourself aren’t you?

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No probs. :slightly_smiling_face: And I am a male, yes.

What you said about the women taking charge, that is about right because of the relational aspect as they tend to be the ones to knit everything together - that’s Scripture, actually. The woman is the heart of the house / family.

Overall, one can understand a situation better from working out a few details and yet ultimately it’s those decisions we act upon which are the outward evidence of our intentions (St. Thomas Aquinas). We can go round in circles our whole lives trying to ‘understand’ ourselves, to some degree tantamount to chasing the tail of one’s emotions, while action is the event and which places us from A to B.

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That’s why the article is not to be treated as fact. And I certainly wasn’t saying that levels of biological make-up ‘makes a person gay’ but rather that this is one factor as part of a whole, leading to certain junctions looming on the horizon. My position, and which I understand to be the Catholic one, is that there isn’t any scientific basis for homosexuality; that particular route is taken by means inclusive of personal choice.

Nevertheless, levels of testosterone will play a factor in people’s emotions. Stands to reason. After all, men have more testosterone than women and women oestrogen and which is why the human race consists of men and women.

And being more emotional has its part, in combination with societal pressures and one’s responses to them / how said-individual deals with them, in the surfacing of paths which can lead to alternative choices.

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Yeah most of it is just speculation or theory, but there’s no actual proof.

I know at the end of the day it’s a me problem, but sometimes I do wonder if there isn’t more to it. In all honesty, I don’t trust the FDA (Food and Drug Administration) here in America. There are so many companies getting sued for putting T4 in our food (T4 is short for Titanium Dioxide, which of course is a metal). So the FDA which is supposed to protect the consumer is doing a very poor job at doing so.

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Sisternightingale, I was born with a stutter and have never fit-in anywhere. And, I dunno, I think people do choose to be gay. And I’m saying this only because, when I was 25 I literally thought that I must be gay because I never fit-in anywhere. And so, I started to choose to live that lifestyle. For me it was because I was naive and I thought that maybe gay men and women would innerstand me better, because these are people who have felt different their entire lives too.

And then when reality hit, and I found out that these individuals are extremely warped in their thinking and in their own relationships, it was then where I figured out that I basically fell for a lie. Cause I went in with nothing but good intentions. I’m like “Maybe these people can help me navigate why I think and feel a certain way.” And then after getting involved in that lifestyle, it’s really one big lie but it’s advertised as this beautiful thing.

I have 2 really good friends, but that’s it. This community preys upon people who are confused on who it is they really are. It was very hard growing up and not being able to speak in full fledged sentences without stuttering terribly, and I was constantly searching for friendship. But, I found out at a very young age that people are just naturally shallow. No one wants to be friends with the man who stutters, because he’s stupid and he can’t speak a sentence without getting stuck on a word. And you have to realize too, throughout my entire life (before I left Catholicism), my interactions with others were always terrible. Cause when someone showed, even just a little bit of interest, I clung onto them, because I was so used to people just abandoning me when I would be stuck on a word in a sentence. And, after this scenario kept happening, I basically was like “Welp, guess the only friend I truly have in this lifetime is God, cause no one else seems to want to give me the time of day.” So, I prayed for a friend…and I prayed for a friend for 16 years, and for all 16 of those years, I never got one. And for me that was the worst thing ever, cause here I thought God was the only one who would even give me the time of day, and you mean to tell me that it’s in God’s will that a man who struggles with stuttering shouldn’t have a friend? And it wasn’t just that issue, there were multiple issues that lead me away from the Church. It wasn’t overnight where I basically said “Ok, I’m done with the Catholic God.” No, this was multiple things that over a period of time I eventually left.

I think you have a good heart sisternightingale. I don’t think you mean to come across as someone who only has bad intentions, in fact most of the time I think you have good intentions. But, people are more than who they are on the surface. Yeah, on the surface, I probably do sound stupid and I probably do annoy people when I get stuck on a word, but if there’s anything I’ve learned is that, people really could care less of who you are on the inside. And, I dunno how it is where you live, but here in America, people are more concerned about surface level stuff then what’s in ones heart. I feel like I have a good heart, and even though I don’t worship the Catholic God anymore, I have found a God that does intervene quite a lot in my life, and has been very helpful for me. And now I do have friends, 2 really good friends, that I would risk my life for.

You’d have to be born with a stutter to really innerstand what I’ve been through, because it is not easy to make friends or even date for that matter. The best way I can describe a day in my life is, imagine not being seen or heard. Imagine trying to relate to people, when others can’t and won’t relate to you. Imagine feeling like you’re the only one who truly innerstands rejection to a degree that most people won’t ever innerstand nor want to innerstand. That’s what it’s like to be me. It has gotten so bad to where, I’d rather just stay home than even socialize anymore. Socializing has become so much of a chore, that it’s just something I’d rather not do. Yes, I have 2 absolutely amazing friends, 2 friends that I know I can count on for anything, and they know that my heart is nothing but loving and caring, and I am very grateful for these 2 amazing friends. But, the sad fact of it is, too many people do not care to see you for who you are. If you can put on a good show on the surface, then that’s all you need to do, because most people could care less about who you are as a person. Because the minute you show a quality of yours that is less then desirable, people want nothing to do with you. It’s sad it’s this way, but I don’t see it being any other way. And maybe it’s because I haven’t explored much of the world but only the tiny piece of land I occupy in the U.S., but that has been my experience.

And the thing is, with the amount of pain and utter loneliness I’ve experienced, I would not wish this life on anyone, not even my worst enemy. Cause living this way is really cruel in my eyes.

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I remember they tested most of the males who worked for BuzzFeed and the majority of them had lower T than most 80 tear old men.

I don’t know if it is the food they eat or just that BuzzFeed hired a certain type of dudes.

I never bought into the “gay gene” theory. I think a lot of it has to do with environment (either an over-nurturing Mother or an overbearing Father).

Another contributing factor is childhood abuse or early experimentation (without getting too explicit).

I also recall a study that said a child needs his Mother up to a certain age and if the child does not have a healthy relationship with his/her Father by a certain other age, then the child is more likely to have confusion or disordered development. Sorry, I can’t remember the exact details. If someone is genuinely interested, I could probably find the interview or the Doctor who was being interviewed. I just recall that there is a window where if the child does not gravitate from the Mother towards the Father, then it is more likely. It doesn’t mean completely away from Mom, but a healthy balance. But, this seems to be more neurological than about testosterone.

I am a bit of a Momma’s boy and I was a very picky eater growing up. My Dad was not the best example of a good Father. And though I have never been tested, I likely have Low-T myself : ) I could have probably gotten a job a BuzzFeed until they would discover that I do not align with their political ideology.

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Well, and like I said, I didn’t necessarily abandon God. Cause I’ll be real with you, when I was a Catholic, some of my prayers were heard. And I would never desire for anyone to leave Catholicism if it was truly helping them. And, I was very devout when I was a Catholic. I literally did everything by the book, so much so, that I wouldn’t even engage in drinking alcohol or smoking. But, having to deal constantly with rejection and with people telling me that I have a stutter (and boy does that get annoying quick, it’s like “Yeah…I was born with a stutter, your point?”) it just got really old after a while. Like, when I was in high school, I was so tired of being bullied and so tired of being left out all because I couldn’t properly speak a sentence completely and this eventually led to me developing a mental disorder.

I do have a God, and this God is constantly talking to me and constantly giving me signs that he exists and recognizes that I am his child. I guess for me, I felt a little betrayed. You try to live your life the best way you can as a Catholic, and you pray everyday, and you try to be nice, even to those who do you dirty…and at the end of the day, I would feel more lonely and more isolated than I did before. It was so bad that near the time I finally left the Church, I would be at my bedside, crying and just saying “Please God, please be real, cause I could really use a hug or something right now!” And I got nothing, not even just a bit of peace. It was one thing to feel completely isolated from everyone else, but nothing hurt me so badly than feeling like God had abandoned me. And I know sometimes your feelings can lie to you, but when you constantly feel like an alien on this planet, it doesn’t help things.

So, I do have a God now that I talk to pretty regularly and He is very responsive. Like, I can’t tell you how easy it is to receive signs from Him. I think this God is the real deal because, there’s a TON of interaction going on. Like even if I’m watching a movie, He’ll point something out in that movie that I never thought of before. Or he’ll make me aware that he’s listening to me when I had a conversation with someone a day ago. It’s hard for me explain how this interaction works, but it really does feel like a friend. Yeah, I can’t see him, but he’s always showing me something and he’s always revealing something to me. He never stops talking to me, it’s literally the best thing I’ve ever come upon.

But please know that I’d never desire for anyone to not be Catholic. My Mother has really changed a lot since she’s become Catholic and for the better really. But, I guess I’m one of those people who need to know that they matter, and need to know that they matter constantly, cause I don’t get that same validation from my own family. In fact, most people in my family (with the exception of my Mother) has mentally checked out on me. I feel like a stranger living in a house full of strangers most of the time.

But thank you for your kind words. Like I said, I think most of the time you have good intentions. I know we started off on the wrong foot, and I admit that I wasn’t very kind to you at the beginning, but I’ve forgiven you in my own way and in fact, I’ve been quiet to you on purpose cause I did think to myself that maybe I’m the one who wasn’t looking at your character the right way. And, come to find out, I did look at your character the wrong way, and God has revealed that to me, cause I’ve been reading what you say on this forum, and especially when you said that you don’t pray as much anymore, I could totally relate to that. But, it’s much more than that, because my idea of you has changed. I was wrong, you’re not the type of person I made you out to be, but I am wrong many times in my life. Even today I still get things wrong, and I’m always open to being wrong cause admittedly I don’t know a whole lot. My knowledge on things is very limited, so I’m always up for not only being wrong but admitting to being wrong too. As a philosopher once said “I know nothing.” So, I’m always welcome to learn anything, including learning that I was wrong about something. You are loved sisternightingale. And, I’m sorry that I didn’t care to look past the surface.

I hope your relationship with God strengthens, and I have no doubt in my mind that it will.

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Ditto as per comment about secret ingredients in food.

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While you make an extremely valid point :grin:, the fact remains that emotions run very, very deep and intertwined into psychology. Emotions don’t even have to directly point to the cause of a particular emotion. Emotions are not always ‘cause and effect’. To get to the heart of an emotion can mean a twisted bracken-laden road of crater-filled hills and desolate landscapes.

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Romans 1 & 2. All of Scripture is important.