Priest psychology: why do men become Priests?

General
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Because, they fly banners that promote the lifestyle. You will see corrupted Churches and altars with “PRıDE” flags (again pride is a sin). Fr. Martin has been seen wearing or holding the symbol.

I honestly don’t even like the Pledge of Allegiance. I do not pledge allegiance to a flag. I pledge allegiance to God. I get why it is wise for a Church to fly a nation’s flag, so that they are not viewed as a threat to Caesar. Yet, the Feds still investigated the Traditional Catholic Church under President Biden, who claims to be Catholic. False witness? Sure looks like it to me.

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Here is another study that you might be interested in: https://catholicproject.catholic.edu/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/Catholic-Project-Final.pdf

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In December, Crisis magazine had an article by Stacy A. Trasancos, “Exaggerations and Eucharistic Miracles” (Exaggerations and Eucharistic Miracles - Crisis Magazine) (I’m not a “Traditional Catholic” who goes to Latin Mass, but I look at Crisis because now and then it has something good.) This article asked why, when people claim that the consecrated wine has turned into physical blood, it is rarely scientifically tested. Ordinarily, the bread and wine, when consecrated, do not physically change in any way we can observe or test. But Jesus said that the consecrated bread and wine are His body and blood, so they are really changed in a spiritual way. So transubstantiation (a changed spiritual reality) cannot be scientifically verified, but claimed transformation into physical flesh and blood could be. In our church a while back, a priest pointed out that in the Old Testament, the people ate the paschal lamb, and in the New Covenant we do it too. I had never thought of that before.

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So the short answer is, although you believe in science, you don’t believe that the blessed bread and wine should be examined scientifically.

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It’s very interesting how your Catholic beliefs–or should I say, YOUR Catholic beliefs?–so often lead you to think the worst of others.

And re Pres Biden: beams and motes, eh?

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I didn’t get that this is what @Literalman was saying at all. I took it as they should scientifically test what we refer to as Eucharistic miracles when they occur, which is the opposite of what you claim he was saying.

Oh, I just realized that you were replying to my post. I agree with @Literalman that we should test scientific claims of Eucharistic miracles. What we are saying is that if you test the Holy Eucharis when one of these miracles has not occurred, it will test as the accidents of bread and wine, even though the substance has been transformed into the body, blood, soul, and divinity of our Lord. Does this make sense?

And for the record, I do not hate President Biden. I do not hate anyone. However, he elevates his political views above his Catholic views. He promotes evil and therefore serves two masters. President Trump is also a poor example of a Christian. And I will add Presidential hopeful Chase Oliver into this as well. He, like Biden and Trump promotes evil. I did not vote for any of these individuals, but I do not hate them. I’m sure people think that I am less than Christian at times, and I would agree with them. The difference between me and these men is that, though I say things to amuse myself and probably shouldn’t say, it is God whom I seek.

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I don’t understand your comment.

If you test a substance alleged to be blood and it does not turn out to be blood, then the reasonable conclusion is that it is not blood. Same for flesh.

That sounds simple enough to me.

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Are we talking about a Eucharistic miracle, where blood or flesh appears? Or are we talking about transubstantiation? I don’t think you understand what we mean by the word. The substance change, but the accidents remain the same. In the case of a Eucharistic miracle, where blood or flesh appears, the accidents have changed and therefore should test as such. Are you understanding now?

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“Accidents” sounds like car crashes. Maybe that is contributing to confusion? Suppose I were elected President. This would change what I am, but you could not tell before and after with a scientific test. Some things are real but can’t be physically measured. The change of bread and wine into the Body and Blood of Christ is something real that can’t be physically measured.

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In other words, “it is, but it isn’t.”

This strikes me as another of the absurd ideas that occur in all religions.

Catholicism seems to me to hold more of these absurd ideas than other religions. There could be a reason for that, I guess–maybe the more absurd ideas one holds, the easier it is to push other ridiculous ideas onto people?

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The human body is amazing! The way it works is amazing. First, would you agree? Second, do you believe all of this is by accident (a fluke)? Or could there be a designer (or what you might refer to as a “ridiculous idea”)?

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I agree totally. Amazing in so many ways.

What does that have to do with Catholic (or any religion’s) doctrine or dogma?

And what about other animals, e.g. simians, elephants? Recent research shows that bonobos are highly intelligent, by the way.

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[quote=“MrCurious, post:72, topic:1996, full:true”]
I agree totally. Amazing in so many ways.
[/qute]

Common ground. We agree on something : )

I believe the latter, that Someone designed all of this. I get the sense that you believe the former, that this is all a fluke. I am willing to expand on what I believe. Are you willing to expand on what you believe?

What about animals? Some theologians would say that animals have limited souls, where as the human species have rational souls, which set us apart. We believe God created both the human species and and the animal species (See Genesis). Theologians have disagreed on how literal the Genesis accounts are. Some Christians are young earth creationists (like my Boss) and others believe creation took place over billions of year (Jimmy Akin and Trent Horn hold this view). I do not have an opinion one way or the other, as it is less important to me than the fact that God created. How God created is more of a matter of science, which I’m not opposed to, but less interested in.

I’m quite fond of the porcupine and the rhinoceros. I agree that some elephants are intelligent creatures. What are your thoughts on donkeys? ; )

My favorite birds are the red-tail hawk (because they are bomber) and the humming bird (which commonly have the shortest life-span of other birds, but they are different from most other birds in what they eat and how they fly). Do you believe birds are real? I only ask, because there is an online joke that “birds are not real,” but rather spying devices made to look like flying creatures. For the record, I believe real birds are real and that there are some birds that are fake, devices to spy.

This thread is all over the place, which I don’t mind. I have enjoyed our conversations.

I can tie this topic of animals back to Priests. St. Francis of Assisi had a deep love for animals and nature. Though he was not ordained a Priest, he was an ordained Deacon and a Friar. He is the patron saint of animals. On his feast day, many Catholic Churches will bless pets.

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In participating here, my interest is in what the church teaches, and how those beliefs are understood, and not in discussing my beliefs. If I wanted to discuss your and my beliefs, I’d invite you over for a cup of coffee.

Of course, I knew from your question that you believed that “god” designed human beings.

Is that the same god who designed women so that 15% to 20% of all pregnancies miscarry spontaneously? So that 3% to 4% of all children born have birth defects?

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OK, so you obviously believe “God” designed human beings.

What is there in the bible that leads you to believe that?

And did god also design chimps and bonobos and elephants and so on?

All the available data indicate that the earth is tens or hundreds of millions of years, and that human beings evolved from earlier life forms. Exactly how that happened, I have no idea, but it seems to me that a force or knowledge designing human beings would have done a better job.

Is that enough of my own beliefs for you?

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I don’t drink Coffee : ) I view this forum as a community. If you don’t feel comfortable sharing publicly, I can respect that. Even privately, you do not want to share, which I find odd.

My Wife and I lost our baby boy late in the pregnancy and it was one of the hardest things we’ve ever had to experience. But, it was also a very beautiful time as well. God was with us in the midst of our suffering and He put some amazing people in our lives during this time of loss. Knowing that we were not alone was also comforting. It is something that, unless you go through it, you will never understand. I didn’t understand it either until we experienced. I thought it was weird when couples would want to hold their lifeless child’s body, and then I got to hold my lifeless child’s body. I thought it was weird when couples would give their child who has passed a name, and then we named our baby boy. I thought it was weird to have a funeral for a child that they’ve never met really, and then we had a funeral for Little Lincoln.

I will start a new thread for this topic and tag you in it. I feel like this is going to take us down a long detour.

I have not studied bonobos, but maybe. Or they could have come about by way of breeding, I’m not sure.

You can be a Christian and believe that the Earth is tens or hundreds of millions of years old. The Catholic Church does not have an official teaching in regards to how old the Earth is.

As far as human beings evolving from apes or monkeys, this is less convincing. Do you believe that human beings evolved from these creatures?

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Wait a minute–am I in the wrong forum? I thought I joined “Catholictalk.net” to discuss/learn more about what the church teaches, and not “MrCurioustalk.net”.

Why are yo u so curious about what I believe?

OK, I’;ll tell you: I try to be cautions about accepting claims of fact. I think the idea of falsifiability is a very good one. Everything I know about religion, and especially Catholic teaching, makes me very wary of those teachings, since I suspect strongly that one (rarely discussed) purpose of nuch religious teaching is to better manipulate and control people.

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For the same reason(s) you are so curious about what Catholic Christians believe. I find it interesting.

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Last night in Adoration, I was reading Eamon Duffy’s, book titled, “Faith of our Fathers.” I got it while we were in Canada.

I like the way he writes. It is almost poetic at times, with history and stories from his life.

The chapter I read last night was all about the Priesthood. There was a time when Priests were from among the community that they served. They were farmers and uneducated (many of them). Some were Married. Sone were Priest were in it for money. Some had children and their children would become Priests (forming a sort of dynasty). And many of them committed sin and corruption. He says it got to the point in the middle-ages where “Christians expected their clergy to be sinful, and were accustomed to moral and spiritual compromises, which the post-Tridentine Church would come to consider outrageous.” He talks about how medieval Christians were more shocked by financial greed and scandal or just as much as we are of clerical lust.

When the Counter-Reformation happened a lot happened in regards to cleaning up the Priesthood.

Duffy writes, “The Council of Trent sought to renew the Church at a diocesan and parish level, and to achieve that renewal the Fathers of the Council understood that they would need a new and better type of Priest. The Tridentine Priest was to be one who lived among his people and for his people, but who was not of his people, a man in fact a cut above them educationally, spiritually, morally.”

He goes on to say how in recent times, there is an increasing demand that our clergy “should be animators, approachable, friendly, involved, on first name terms… The Tridentine vision is slowly, but surely collapsing under the joint pressure of theological and social.”

Eamon Duffy seems to not take either side of modernism vs traditionalism as the answer, but rather looks fondly with a sense of gratitude for the past.

What I am seeing is a lack of respect for Priests, because many Priests care more about being liked than about proclaiming the truth and bringing Christ to the people reverently. They would rather tell jokes at Mass. And almost laugh at how good of a sinner he is.

As you have seen, I am the first to admit that God chooses fallen human beings to become Priests and that even the Saints were sinners.

Pray for our Priests.