# Why do Many Atheists Believe in Aliens, but not God?
**URL:** https://forum.catholictalk.net/t/why-do-many-atheists-believe-in-aliens-but-not-god/1895
**Category:** Casual Discussion
**Created:** [December 19, 2024, 4:00pm UTC](https://forum.catholictalk.net/t/why-do-many-atheists-believe-in-aliens-but-not-god/1895 "2024-12-19T16:00:49Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 3
### Author:  [@ddonova7](https://forum.catholictalk.net/u/ddonova7)
#### Post date: [November 27, 2025, 8:20am UTC](https://forum.catholictalk.net/t/why-do-many-atheists-believe-in-aliens-but-not-god/1895/51 "2025-11-27T08:20:08Z")
“But according to Mr. Ratzinger”
Ah, you must not be Catholic.
Cardinal Ratzinger was also the head of the Congress of the Doctrine of the Faith, and given the position of the “Watchdog” of theology by John Paul II.
He later became Pope himself, Benedict XVI. He’s considered one of our greatest modern theologians.
> **[Joseph Ratzinger, Breathtakingly Brilliant Theologian](https://www.ncregister.com/commentaries/joseph-ratzinger-breathtakingly-brilliant-theologian)**
>
> COMMENTARY: Both scholarly and yet accessible, Joseph Ratzinger’s Christocentric approach brought a clarity of thought that the Church will still be digesting decades, if not centuries, from now.
I see no reason he wouldn’t have known of your objections, he even wrote a book about how to approach Genesis in the 1980s.
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### Author:  [@ddonova7](https://forum.catholictalk.net/u/ddonova7)
#### Post date: [November 27, 2025, 8:31am UTC](https://forum.catholictalk.net/t/why-do-many-atheists-believe-in-aliens-but-not-god/1895/52 "2025-11-27T08:31:43Z")
“Some Catholics do. I would not make the claim that “Catholics believe this.””
I would, because most Catholic do, and the clergy of the Church admit this is likely the case, for as John Paull II said the proof for it came from multiple directions. The Church has its own Academy of Sciences at the Vatican, and they advise them about these matters.
Once you know what the evidence for evolution is, its easy to see it’s just self-evident. Not only can we say Evolution exists, nature needs it to function, life would have just died out every time there’s a dramatic climate shift otherwise.
We’ve also turned it into tools, that both work and regulate things humans manage. Like GMO crops, the bugs that eat them, and even Pharmaceuticals.
Researchers have also done this:
> **[Scientists Have Created Chickens With Dinosaur Snouts](https://www.popsci.com/chicken-embryos-created-dinosaur-snouts/)**
>
> No, this is not the plot of the new Jurassic Park movie
Kind of hard to explain why genes of dinosaurs would be in chickens, without them being related.
Microbes also have this thing called CRISPR, that does genetic engineering. It’s just in them, we didn’t make it, but we do make use of it.
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### Author:  [@Peter1](https://forum.catholictalk.net/u/Peter1)
#### Post date: [November 27, 2025, 3:17pm UTC](https://forum.catholictalk.net/t/why-do-many-atheists-believe-in-aliens-but-not-god/1895/54 "2025-11-27T15:17:42Z")
According to the Bible, God created species by a spoken command, with each animal created according to its specific “kind”. Man was created separately on the sixth day, made in the image of God from the dust of the earth, and **did not evolve from other animals**.
According to the creation story, humans are the only beings who resemble God. They were created “in the image of God” (see Genesis 1:26-28). Since humans resemble God, communication is possible between God and humans. According to the creation story, **God looks for a relationship with humans.**
If scripture says that God sits on a throne, and wears a crown, I accept that. If scripture says that God created us in His image and that we can have a reciprocal loving relationship with Him, I accept that. This means that God has a form. That form is not made of material energy like our form. But it is an eternal spiritual form. And every spirit soul has an eternal relationship of reciprocation of love between ourselves and God….. in our eternal spiritual forms.
As you inform me, Mr. Ratzinger was appointed to be “the “Watchdog” of theology”. From my point of view, the “watchdog” is the protector. He does not allow trespassers like the “scientists” to impose their speculative concepts on the straight-forward words of scripture.
When I was a science student at university, one of my professors said to me in confidentiality, in his office, “We really don’t know anything. We make up most of our theories. And they change from year to year. That’s why we always tell the students not to purchase last year’s textbooks…..because the theories are always changing.”
If Mr. Ratzinger has evolved from monkeys, I am O.K. with that. However according to scripture, we were created in the image of God for the purpose of having an ongoing personal reciprocation of love with Him. Therefore Jesus has advised those of lesser understanding (the Jews of his time), that the highest rule of all spiritual teachings is to “love the Lord thy God with all of our mind, all of our heart, and all of our strength.” This is a very personal relationship of loving exchange, which the scientists, who put forward the theory of evolution, will never endorse.
In any case, please be at peace with your faith in the innovative interpretations of Catholic clergy. God knows the sincerity of our hearts, and blesses us with revelation, according to our desire to cultivate our love for Him. Respectfully and with affection, Peter
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### Author:  [@ddonova7](https://forum.catholictalk.net/u/ddonova7)
#### Post date: [November 27, 2025, 7:30pm UTC](https://forum.catholictalk.net/t/why-do-many-atheists-believe-in-aliens-but-not-god/1895/55 "2025-11-27T19:30:16Z")
“According to the Bible”
Things are complex, as Genesis says things we already know we can’t take literally.
1. a firmanent in the sky
2. corners of the Earth
3. The Earth at the center of the solar system, or the Universe.
None of these things exist.
St. Augustine knew this in the 2nd century, after Christians confidently used the Bible to claim how stars moved (wrongly), and the Moors looked at Augustine and asked “Are all of you this … dumb?”
And Agustine was livid:
“ **Usually, even a non-Christian knows something about the earth, the heavens, and the other elements of the world, about the motion and orbit of the stars and even their size and relative positions, about the predictable eclipses of the sun and moon, the cycles of the years and the seasons, about the kinds of animals, shrubs, stones, and so forth, and this knowledge he holds to as being certain from reason and experience. Now, it is a disgraceful and dangerous thing for an infidel to hear a Christian, presumably giving the meaning of Holy Scripture, talking nonsense on these topics; and we should take all means to prevent such an embarrassing situation, in which people show up vast ignorance in a Christian and laugh it to scorn. The shame is not so much that an ignorant individual is derided, but that people outside the household of faith think our sacred writers held such opinions, and, to the great loss of those for whose salvation we toil, the writers of our Scripture are criticized and rejected as unlearned men. If they find a Christian mistaken in a field which they themselves know well and hear him maintaining his foolish opinions about our books, how are they going to believe those books in matters concerning the resurrection of the dead, the hope of eternal life, and the kingdom of heaven, when they think their pages are full of falsehoods on facts which they themselves have learnt from experience and the light of reason?** ” – St. Augistine of Hippo , Confessions book V
In the end, Fundamentalist is just a modernist Error, it’s not how the Church fathers approached the faith.
> ” **did not evolve from other animals**.”
Scientists have already reproduced this experimentally, and certain species have evolved since humans have been around.
Agrobacterium manipulated the DNA of its flower host to create the Sweet potato. It was just a root before.
Also, Ring species (mostly different kinds of lizards) appear when a species figures out how to be asexual, but still reproduces sexually with neighboring species.
And of course, viruses, I’m sure everyone here is familiar with the term **“GAIN OF FUNCTION** ”? That’s evolution.
You do not want to credit God with that, unless your comfortable with the idea of God just making new breeds of viruses, every year, that go after just poor starving kids in Africa.
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### Author:  [@ddonova7](https://forum.catholictalk.net/u/ddonova7)
#### Post date: [November 27, 2025, 7:40pm UTC](https://forum.catholictalk.net/t/why-do-many-atheists-believe-in-aliens-but-not-god/1895/56 "2025-11-27T19:40:17Z")
> “ **To me, Athiests have a different Father’s Name for the Same One God** ”
I’m not an atheist, neither was the Pope:
” **4. Taking into account the state of scientific research at the time as well as of the requirements of theology, the encyclical _Humani Generis_considered the doctrine of “evolutionism” a serious hypothesis, worthy of investigation and in-depth study equal to that of the opposing hypothesis. Pius XII added two methodological conditions: that this opinion should not be adopted as though it were a certain, proven doctrine and as though one could totally prescind from revelation with regard to the questions it raises. He also spelled out the condition on which this opinion would be compatible with the Christian faith, a point to which I will return. Today, almost half a century after the publication of the encyclical, new knowledge has led to the recognition of the theory of evolution as more than a hypothesis.**
**It is indeed remarkable that this theory has been progressively accepted by researchers, following a series of discoveries in various fields of knowledge. The convergence, neither sought nor fabricated, of the results of work that was conducted independently is in itself a significant argument in favor of this theory.** ” – John Paul II, _Truth Cannot Contradict Truth_, 1996.
Seriously, just go look at the evidence he’s talking about. You’ll admit it’s obvious once you do.
> [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GfKZlTRNjA#t=1m7s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GfKZlTRNjA#t=1m7s)
If you can admit DNA testing works to show how humans are related, you admit we can also use it to show if were related to other species.
Because its the **same** test doing the **same** thing.
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### Author:  [@Peter1](https://forum.catholictalk.net/u/Peter1)
#### Post date: [November 27, 2025, 9:40pm UTC](https://forum.catholictalk.net/t/why-do-many-atheists-believe-in-aliens-but-not-god/1895/57 "2025-11-27T21:40:26Z")
Hello dd! Respectful greetings!
I can understand that you are a very well read person, seemingly on the Masters or Phd level of education in these matters.
Actually I am not a member of the Catholic faith. And it would be wrong for me to try to impose the understandings of the scriptures that I follow on you and others who are at home in their own church.
The Vedic scriptures state that there are 14 planetary systems within the universe. They are situated in a vertical arrangement, with the topmost planet being for the most pious souls, and the bottommost planets being for the most sinful. Earth planet is situated (according to this description) in the middle planetary system (as I believe you mentioned is stated in the Bible).
Our scriptures say that the most pious souls (those who are engaged in “good works”) take birth on the higher planets, which are indescribably beautiful, heavenly. And the most sinful take birth on the lower planets. All of this is according to “sewing and reaping”, or as the word is used in our scriptures, according to “karma”. But all of these planets are places where birth and death occur. Even these higher planets are not part of the spiritual realm, the kingdom of God. They are all part of God’s material creation.
Jesus teaches that we cannot enter the Kingdom by being a “good” person. He says, “Not by good works alone…..”. Rather, he teaches that the ticket, or passport, is to love God with all of our heart, mind and strength. This is not about obedience to rules. This is about having a spontaneous outpouring of love of God within our hearts, so that every thought, word, and deed are decorated with this demeanor. This is what Jesus is teaching us. Pure devotion. This is not about asking God for anything other than the ability to love Him.
But the question arises, and perhaps your studies can shed some light on my question. According to the Bible, the heavenly host exists. I am not sure if this means 100 souls, 1000 souls, or unlimited millions or trillions. But the Bible speaks of the heavenly host. They live with God in the spiritual realm where there is no birth, no death, no disease, no process of growing old. The pastime of the residents of the spiritual realm is glorification of God, and celebration of God’s power, God’s majesty, God’s love, things of that nature.
So the question arises: Why would the almighty, unlimitedly gracious Lord cause us to take our birth here in the realm of birth, old age, disease and death? Why would he cause us to be born into total forgetfulness of our real nature as His eternal loving servants? Why would we be born with self-centered, sinful natures, so that we have to be redeemed, rehabilitated?
The narrative of the Garden of Eden provides a clue. That Garden is not to be found on earth, or anywhere within the material creation. According the Vedic scriptures, and some degree of logic, the Garden of Eden is the spiritual realm where the duality of “good and evil” doesn’t exist. But love must include the capacity to exercise our free will. If we had no choice……it wouldn’t be love. God desires us to love Him of our own accord. And what is the meaning of love? “Love” means to desire only one thing: “the happiness of the beloved.” Therefore when God says to Adam and Eve, “Do not partake of the fruit of the tree of good and evil.”, He is establishing a line that we must not cross. And if we love Him, we don’t cross it. And if we wish to seek our fulfillment independent of His wishes, we succumb to temptation. And here we are……in the world of duality, the world of “good and evil”.
There is one verse in the Bible, wherein God says to Jeremiah, “Before you were formed in your mother’s womb, I knew you.” God explains to Jeremiah that He is sending him to this world, to preach His message to the nations of the world. Therefore Jeremiah, like Jesus, comes here not like us who are born into the duality of “good and evil”, but only to preach to us, who are like prodigal sons and daughters of God……we are those who have succumbed to the temptation, and been put out of “the Garden”.
Now, if we are to accept The logic of Saint Aquinas, that we cannot take all of the Bible literally, then why not apply this understanding to the narrative of the Adam and Eve being “deported” from the spiritual realm, and having to live in the realm of birth and death, the material realm?Why not understand that this applies to all souls who, unlike the heavenly host, are allocated to take their birth in the material realm, where we labor and maintain ourselves by the sweat of our brow? After all, the heavenly host resides with God. They don’t sweat. They don’t struggle to maintain themselves. But we are here. And we require serious counseling. Therefore personalities like Jeremiah, and Jesus come here, telling us that they are “in this world, but not of this world.” And telling us not to look for our fulfillment in this world, but rather, “Great is your reward in heaven.”
This kind of understanding makes more sense. God is filled with love for all of us. But He has placed us here. And He sends His representatives to counsel us, to rehabilitate us, to give us a sense of direction, and to take us home, to the spiritual world.
However, not everyone agrees to accept the invitation. So scripture says that they go to hell. Period. This perhaps is based on scripture. But again, let us consider the view of Aquinas. If a boy goes to school, but does not pass his exams, he doesn’t proceed to the next grade. He has to repeat. He’s not sent to hell. He’s given the chance to repeat, to learn, to make advancement. Surely God is more kind than the elementary school system of the material world. Therefore the Vedic scriptures inform us that we have been here before, birth after birth…..until we learn……until we accept the invitation to stop being self-centered little gods of the material world, and begin to open our hearts to receive God’s blessings and God’s grace.
Our hearts are filled with desires. But they are self-centered. Jesus teaches, by his example: “Not what I want, my Lord, but only what pleases You, only what You want.” This is the position that we have to attain before we can return to the spiritual world. In the spiritual world, no one has any desire other than to attain the pleasure of God.
The materialist thinks, “What about me? What about my pleasure?” David answers this in the the 23rd Psalm: “My cup runneth over.” When one’s heart is overflowing with love for God, he simultaneously experiences God’s love in reciprocation…….and he desires nothing more than this. No longer does he require the rules of morality. His very life becomes an expression of love for God, and all of God’s children in this world.
These are some perspectives that one can consider. You are a serious person. You have looked deeply in these matters. I am not Saint Aquinas. But perhaps you can consider some of the ideas that I am humbly placing before you, Peter
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### Author:  [@ddonova7](https://forum.catholictalk.net/u/ddonova7)
#### Post date: [November 28, 2025, 9:35am UTC](https://forum.catholictalk.net/t/why-do-many-atheists-believe-in-aliens-but-not-god/1895/58 "2025-11-28T09:35:42Z")
Hi Peter. I’m not an expert on Vedic syncratism that you presented, but I’ll try my best.
First, I don’t think you meant “14 planetary systems” I think you meant 14 planes of existence. Something like the “worlds” presented in Norse Mythology, where they exist as separated, independent realms.
To your question “Why would God place souls here in a world of suffering, ignorance, and moral weakness, instead of in the perfect spiritual realm?”, From a Thomistic perspective, the soul does not pre-exist its body. Aquinas is explicit on this in _Summa Theologiae_, each human soul is a new creation by God at the moment the body is capable of receiving it; it does not exist in a prior spiritual realm nor fall from a higher plane into matter. For Aquinas, the spiritual and bodily dimensions of the human person belong together by nature, _my_ soul is the form of _my_ body, not a pre-existing spirit awaiting a host. Scripture verses like Jeremiah 1:5 (“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you”) refer to God’s eternal knowledge, not personal pre-mortem existence. So within Thomism, pre-existence is incompatible with the nature of the human person.
For similar reasons, Catholic theology cannot accept reincarnation. The core Christian doctrines, Incarnation, Resurrection of the Body, Final Judgment, depend on each person living one embodied life, followed by death, judgment, and resurrection. The Council of Florence (1439) and the Catechism (§1013) explicitly reject the idea that souls cycle through multiple bodies to progress spiritually. Morally, the Church teaches that salvation is the gift of grace, not karmic self-improvement across lifetimes; ontologically, the soul is intrinsically ordered to _one_ body, not a series of temporary containers. Reincarnation dissolves the unity of the person and undermines Christian teachings about the uniqueness of earthly life, the Cross, and the resurrection of the body.
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### Author:  [@EarthsStudent](https://forum.catholictalk.net/u/EarthsStudent)
#### Post date: [November 28, 2025, 9:45am UTC](https://forum.catholictalk.net/t/why-do-many-atheists-believe-in-aliens-but-not-god/1895/59 "2025-11-28T09:45:54Z")
Dd, may I ask you what you believe? You don’t have to tell me if you don’t want to, cause if I’m being real here, I don’t really care for labels which is why I’m not part of any religion or religious belief system. But I’m curious as to what you believe.
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### Author:  [@Literalman](https://forum.catholictalk.net/u/Literalman)
#### Post date: [November 28, 2025, 3:13pm UTC](https://forum.catholictalk.net/t/why-do-many-atheists-believe-in-aliens-but-not-god/1895/61 "2025-11-28T15:13:02Z")
> [@ddonova7](#):
>
> The Earth at the center of the solar system, or the Universe.
Can you tell me where Genesis states this? I’m not disputing your statement, but I’ve read Genesis a few times and just don’t recall this. Thank you.
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### Author:  [@ddonova7](https://forum.catholictalk.net/u/ddonova7)
#### Post date: [November 28, 2025, 5:10pm UTC](https://forum.catholictalk.net/t/why-do-many-atheists-believe-in-aliens-but-not-god/1895/62 "2025-11-28T17:10:25Z")
### Genesis 1:14, 1:16, 1:16–19 — “Lights in the firmament,” “two great lights,” “set in the firmament”
These passages describe the sun, moon, and stars being “placed” in a dome above the earth, which sounds like a fixed Earth with the heavens moving around it.
Geocentrists argue that since the text speaks phenomenologically (“light to rule the day,” etc.), the Bible affirms Earth as the center. And they’re not (entirely) wrong, the writers of the Bible assumed cosmology this way.
The text that describe a “unmoving Earth” come later in psalms , Job and Joshua.
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### Author:  [@ddonova7](https://forum.catholictalk.net/u/ddonova7)
#### Post date: [November 28, 2025, 5:14pm UTC](https://forum.catholictalk.net/t/why-do-many-atheists-believe-in-aliens-but-not-god/1895/63 "2025-11-28T17:14:00Z")
Catholic, following a Thomistic approach wherever possible. Sometimes it’s not, such as with how he (St. Aquinas) defined usury or when babies are ensouled.
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### Author:  [@Peter1](https://forum.catholictalk.net/u/Peter1)
#### Post date: [November 28, 2025, 5:24pm UTC](https://forum.catholictalk.net/t/why-do-many-atheists-believe-in-aliens-but-not-god/1895/64 "2025-11-28T17:24:36Z")
Dear dd, I am sincerely moved by the power of your mind. The average “believer” has probably never even read or heard of the texts that you have studied, which are the basis of Catholicism today.
A person of my intellectual caliber could never defeat you in debate, especially since you base your reasoning on your unquestionable faith in the writings of the fathers of the Catholic Church, just I base mine on the authority of the ancient Vedic literatures.
From what you write, it appears that you embrace the concept that the body and soul are one, that the atoms and molecules of the material nature, which are not different from the earth in your front lawn, are capable of consciousness…… that life is produced by a mature combination of molecules, by the inconceivable power of God. In other words, according your conception, there is no difference between spirit and matter, but that spirit is the symptom of matter, when properly fabricated. I cannot embrace this idea, but I do understand that your understanding is not based on the power of mundane logic, but on unshakable faith in the teachings of the founders of the Catholic Church. Therefore it is best to let the matter rest.
Re: the 14 planetary systems, the Vedic literatures do not describe them as planes of existence, but literally as planetary systems, higher and lower. However, at the same time, it is described that the composition of the bodies of the beings on the higher planets are not made of the gross material elements, like the bodies on our earth planet. Their bodies are made of subtle material energy…….similar to the church’s concept of angels. They can travel at the speed of mind, appearing where they wish. They do not have gross material forms.
My thought is, that rather than trying to convince each other, our conversation is an opportunity for me, to learn and understand the cosmology, the axiomatic conceptions of the Catholic Church. Generally, people simply are “members” of one church or another. But you have a scholarly understanding of you faith. I very much appreciate that.
In addressing my question as to why God would place us into the material creation, in total ignorance of our relationship with him, in conditions of the greatest struggle and turmoil, and subject us to the experiences of old age, disease and death…….The Bible does speak of the heavenly host, those souls who live with God in the spiritual realm, where there is no birth, no death, where life is eternal, without beginning and end. But God has placed us here, in a place where we have to surrender our rebellious spirit of independence, and accept that our real identity as spirit souls, is to love the Lord, our God, with all of our heart, mind and strength. I am interested to know if Saint Aquinas has explained for our understanding, why God has chosen to arrange our lives in this way. As I think you are aware, the Vedic conception is, that we, in the material realm, are the fallen angels, who are placed here for our redemption, and that God sends His representatives, like Jeremiah, and Jesus, to guide us back home, as prodigal sons and daughters. I am sure that you are aware of the activities of human beings on earth, from a historical point of view, and from what is going on in this world today. Imperialism is the history of our planet. Exploitation, slavery on all continents, endless wars…..the Vedic literatures explain that this is the activity of the soul that envies the position of God, and cultivates the desire to be the supreme proprietor, the supreme controller, and the supreme enjoyer. In this way, Veda explains, God directs our envy of Him towards each other. Each of us is trying to be God, as much as our individual capacity for power permits. The stronger man, becomes a president, or monarch, or prime minister……and then desires to conquer other nations. The child in the playground wants the other children to play by his rules. The game is the same. The husband wants to exploit the wife. The wife wants to exploit the husband. And when they don’t get what they want from each other, they divorce. But their union is established in the name of love.
I see in your answer that Aquinas postulates that the soul doesn’t exist prior to the creation of the material body. This is a new concept for me. According to Vedic literature, the soul is eteranal, just as God is eternal.”Eternal” means having no beginning and no end. But Aquinas is saying that the soul has a historical starting point. This is new for me.
There is so much evidence of individuals having experience of past lives, of little children describing to their parents where they lived in a past life, the house in another country, the people, their relationships, etc. And when going to investigate these claims of the children, it all seems to prove correct. There are books describing these phenomena.
Also, there are yogis, or even people in everyday life, who experiences what is called, “astral travel”. They can leave their bodies and travel to different places, and then return to their bodies. This is similar to the reports of NDE, “near death experiences”, wherein the consciousness of the person, leaves the body (which may be in a coma) and see Jesus, or past family members, etc., and then return to the body. In other words, there seems to be evidence that the body and spirit are two different things. The body of a dead person will compost, and become earth again. But the soul is eternal.
You make mention of the Council of Florence (1439), rejecting the concept of reincarnation. This means that this discussion has been going on for centuries and is not a new subject. From my point of view, the Council of Florence is made up of men, who are discussing things that are beyond their scope of personal experience. On the other hand, there are people who remember their past lives, and describe the details which can be verified. However, I do respect that you have faith in the philosophy of reality as it is presented by the Catholic Church.
Another point of discussion, it the idea of salvation. The Vedic literatures, in agreement with the teachings of Jesus, as presented in the Bible, do not state that one can achieve salvation by being a good person. There will be sewing and reaping, according to got our actions. This is the “law of karma”, and the reason why one person is born as Prince Harry, and grows up in a palace with servants, and another person is born crippled, paraplegic, or the son of a prostitute. etc. The idea is, as Jesus teaches, “Do unto others as you would have then do unto you.”, because this is the law. Or, as the. man in the street says, “What goes around, comes around.”But Jesus also says, “it is not by good works alone”, that one can enter the kingdom of God. Rather, Jesus explains, one must “love the Lord, thy God with all our heart, and all of our strength.”, which means that every thought, word and deed, must be performed with a loving desire to be pleasing to God. This is the price that Jesus describes. Jesus says that those who are materially successful, because of being “good people” can’t know God, any more than a camel can be pushed through the eye a needle. So, it is not by “good works”, that one can enter the Kingdom of God, according to Jesus, and not according to Vedic teachings. We must become lovers of God, not merely by obedience, but by the spontaneous feelings of love of the heart. And this, is what Jesus came to teach us. The Jews were following the laws of Moses, the 10 commandments, etc. But Jesus came to give the next step……love of God. That is the only next step. simply saying, “I accept Jesus as my savior”……anyone can say like that. But Jesus also describes that at the time of judgement, when the soul says, “I did this in your name, ai did that….”, Jesus will say, “I never knew you.” So what is this “knowing”? Jesus is saying, that he “knows” us, or recognizes us, as much as we “know” him. And what does this mean? it means that we have to accept the yoke that he wares.i And what is that yoke? It is the yoke of love of God. He asks us to accept it. He doesn’t ask us to become church members, or to accept the teachings of Aquinas. He asks us to become lovers of God. Not lovers of family, society, friendship and nation. I have read in Bible that Jesus says he has come to tear the family apart, so that he can claim that one soul, who is ready to truly follow what he wishes to share with him.
It appears that you believe that his material body is going to arise up out of the grave and walk around… I am more inclined to accept the idea or “ashes to ashes, and dust to dust.” The soul is eternal, and this material body is a punishment…….the punishment given to Adam and Eve. We have traded our eternal life for a sojourn in “the valley of the shadow of death”, also known as the material world, where we earn our keep by the sweat of our brow, where we come with nothing, and leave with nothing, where everyone aspires to be “king for a day”, in spite of the fact that Jesus offers us chance to have eternal life.
Thank you, dd, for sharing with me. Although I cannot embrace all of the understandings that you are putting forward, I do find it informative……there is really nothing more important to us than to understand, “Why am I here, Why and I suffering, and what is the purpose of life?” Hare Krishna! (May you be always in communion with God through the mercy of his son, the most glorious Lord Jesus Christ).
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### Author:  [@Peter1](https://forum.catholictalk.net/u/Peter1)
#### Post date: [November 28, 2025, 6:06pm UTC](https://forum.catholictalk.net/t/why-do-many-atheists-believe-in-aliens-but-not-god/1895/65 "2025-11-28T18:06:37Z")
Yes, another thought. “Prodigal son” doesn’t simply mean going to a nice place where everything good is supplied to fulfill all our wants. It means…………returning to our real home, where our real Father receives us with open arms. It means we have departed from our real home, and are wandering about, trying to be happy on our own. Jesus has come to take us all back home. This is my understanding. With love and respect, Peter
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### Author:  [@Literalman](https://forum.catholictalk.net/u/Literalman)
#### Post date: [November 28, 2025, 7:19pm UTC](https://forum.catholictalk.net/t/why-do-many-atheists-believe-in-aliens-but-not-god/1895/66 "2025-11-28T19:19:03Z")
Thanks, Ddonova7. You are right that those verses imply that the sun and moon circle the earth. I had not thought about that aspect before, only that they describe and antiquated cosmology. However, I don’t see the Bible as teaching science per se anyway, though certainly much of it is factual, but I understand it as teaching what we need to know in our relationship with God.
I took a college-level course in astronomy many years ago and still have the textbook. 🙂
And as everyone knows, Planet Steve is the center of the universe. 😉
Steve
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### Author:  [@Peter1](https://forum.catholictalk.net/u/Peter1)
#### Post date: [November 28, 2025, 11:10pm UTC](https://forum.catholictalk.net/t/why-do-many-atheists-believe-in-aliens-but-not-god/1895/67 "2025-11-28T23:10:29Z")
Sounds like the Bible has some things written in it that are accepted by Catholics, and some things that are not accepted in the light of “scientific” study of nature, etc. If this is the case, then the question arises as to where we draw the line.
For example, no archeologist will find the Garden of Eden on planet earth. Therefore perhaps we should reject the idea that Adam and Eve were “deported” from that earthly Garden, and that because we are born on planet earth as descendants of Adam and Eve, therefore we are born with original sin, being disqualified because of the faults of Adam and Eve.
It makes more sense to conclude that the narrative of Adam and Eve is metaphoric. And, that their eviction was from the spiritual realm, that they were placed in the material world of birth and death because of their rebellious attitude, and that the same thing applies to all of us. And that we are born in ignorance, filled with self-centeredness and oblivious to the supremacy of God, because that was our sinful desire when living in the spiritual realm (otherwise referred to by scripture as the Garden of Eden). And that we struggle down here, in the material world. We struggle and face so trials, disappointments and frustrations. And all of this is arranged by God’s will……for breaking our rebellious spirit. And then God sends His representative to inform us of our constitutional position in relation to God. However, not all souls are are ready to “hear” because they have not yet suffered enough, to be able to accept proper guidance. Therefore Jesus says repeatedly, “Those who have ears, let them hear.”
My thought is that the writing of the Bible, and the interpretations of the Bible given by men who are thoughtful by nature, will only continue to evolve, according to the proclamations of men who are voted into positions of authority by men of lesser caliber.
Please do not misunderstand me. I do believe that God exists. I do believe that He wants our love. I am only saying that the ideas of Catholicism appear to be evolving, at least in part, according to the normative conceptions of the day, and the speculations of unenlightened souls.
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### Author:  [@ddonova7](https://forum.catholictalk.net/u/ddonova7)
#### Post date: [November 29, 2025, 6:45am UTC](https://forum.catholictalk.net/t/why-do-many-atheists-believe-in-aliens-but-not-god/1895/68 "2025-11-29T06:45:00Z")
> “Re: the 14 planetary systems, the Vedic literatures do not describe them as planes of existence, but literally as planetary systems, higher and lower. However, at the same time, it is described that the composition of the bodies of the beings on the higher planets are not made of the gross material elements,”
Then I think I need one more point of clarification – are you saying there are only 14 planetary systems in the whole universe? or just 14 that matter to your cosmological model?
> “In other words, there seems to be evidence that the body and spirit are two different things.”
Thomism agrees with this, the soul is created and ensouled in new bodies, but the soul is not the same as matter or the body.
Souls equally are not created through phsycical, material acts (nor were they ever in history). God is involved in its creation, and in the ensoulment.
> “You make mention of the Council of Florence (1439), rejecting the concept of reincarnation.”
Oh it’s far older than the council, Florence simply codified the understanding. This really goes back first to St. Augistine, and further to the Greeks and their conception of the metaphysics of human nature.
Ie. its the insights of Plato, Plotinus, and Aristotle, especially the idea that a human person is not a pre-existent spirit inserted into a body, but a single composite being: one substance made of body and rational soul together. This view is grounded in their understanding of form and matter, the soul is the form of the body, the organizing principle that makes a living human be one unified reality.
In this framework, a soul cannot migrate from one body to another, because the identity of a person is bound to the unity of this particular embodied life. When St. Aquinas later develops this further, he doesn’t overturn it, he reinforces it with even clearer arguments. For him, the soul is created by God at the moment the body is ready for it, not because the soul has a “beginning in time” per se, but because a rational soul is always created in relation to this body and this person.
It isn’t a wandering entity trapped in matter; it is the very principle that makes this human being what he or she is.
> “It appears that you believe that his material body is going to arise up out of the grave and walk around”
To be clear, it’s not your normal body, rather it is one that is glorified, spiritualized, imperishable, and different in quality (1 Cor 15:42–44).
Christ is himself the model; physical, but transformed as we see of him post the Resurrection.
Now onto your question:
> “Why does God create souls who have no pre-existence and place them in the material world?”
Well, from the Catholic and Thomistic perspective, the reason God creates us without pre-existence is because existence itself is a pure gift.
God freely and lovingly creates each human soul at the moment of conception (CCC 366), not as a demotion from a previous life but as the beginning of an entirely new, unrepeatable person. Creation is participation in being. As Aquinas puts it, God wills the good of creatures by giving them existence (ST I.19.2)
We are created because God is generous, and freely gives of himself.
So if God’s creation is good, why do we find ourselves in a world with suffering, ignorance, and moral struggle? Here Aquinas argues that God orders the universe toward a higher good that includes the drama of freedom, growth, and virtue. Humans are created with real free will, and real freedom entails the capacity for disorder, sin, and moral darkness (ST I-II.79).
Yet this is not because God wishes ignorance upon us. Rather, he permits the possibility of moral failure so that higher goods—courage, mercy, redemption, hope, and self-giving love (called “agape”)— can exist.
These goods cannot exist in a static paradise. They arise precisely from our embodied, historical lives where we can freely learn to love the Good Himself.
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### Author:  [@Literalman](https://forum.catholictalk.net/u/Literalman)
#### Post date: [November 29, 2025, 2:26pm UTC](https://forum.catholictalk.net/t/why-do-many-atheists-believe-in-aliens-but-not-god/1895/69 "2025-11-29T14:26:45Z")
The Baltimore Catechism, from which I was taught when I was young, stated succinctly that we are creatures composed of body and soul and made in the image and likeness of God and that He made us to know, love, and serve Him in this world and to be happy forever with Him in heaven.
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### Author:  [@Peter1](https://forum.catholictalk.net/u/Peter1)
#### Post date: [November 29, 2025, 4:22pm UTC](https://forum.catholictalk.net/t/why-do-many-atheists-believe-in-aliens-but-not-god/1895/70 "2025-11-29T16:22:49Z")
Hi Literalman (my dear friend, if I may),
As you may know that I have not been exposed to the Catholic Catechism, being born into a family of hard-core Jewish atheists…….
I now have read of two concepts or modules in the life of a Catholic. On the one hand, I believe that I have read (on this site), that at some point, (I think it is when Jesus returns to our planet), all of his deserving disciples/followers/worshippers will arise from their graves with eternal bodies. And on the other hand, I am reading, at present, “that He made us to know, love, and serve Him in this world and to be happy forever with Him in heaven.”
I am attracted to this second description (above). And it brings questions to mind also. What is our life like in heaven? Do we know Him, and love Him, and serve Him in heaven, as we do on earth? Does the soul have an eternal spiritual form when he/she goes to heaven? what are the activities of the soul in the spiritual realm (heaven)? Is the relationship with God in heaven more personal than only knowing Him with faith, but not being able to bow before Him, or to be embraced in His arms? (I would like to make a flower garland, and in all humility have the opportunity to place it on the shoulders of God, and then bow down before Him.)
And last, but not least, how do we reconcile these two seemingly divergent rewards, being reborn from the grave on earth, vs. the blessing of eternal life with God in heaven? What is the predominant understanding according to Catholic Catechism?
Thank you my friend. Your gentleness gives me courage to make these inquiries. Peter
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### Author:  [@Peter1](https://forum.catholictalk.net/u/Peter1)
#### Post date: [November 29, 2025, 4:59pm UTC](https://forum.catholictalk.net/t/why-do-many-atheists-believe-in-aliens-but-not-god/1895/71 "2025-11-29T16:59:37Z")
Greetings dd!
I have an appointment in a half hour, but I am very enthused to continue our conversation. Your explanations and elaborations are on the Phd level, as well as saturated with patience and kindness. Thank you so much.
According the Vedic astrological descriptions of the universe, there are 14 planetary systems, each with its “collection” of planets. These planets are higher and lower. According to our activities, of piety and impiety, we take birth on these various planets. According to the concept of reincarnation (which I understand is rejected by Catholicism) we are subjected to the process of “sewing and reaping”, or “karma”, and we take our birth, according to our merit, birth after birth. According to these scriptures, the only way to leave the material creation, and all 14 planetary systems behind us and go to God’s domain where all residing souls have eternal life, is by the process of cultivation and attainment of spontaneous heartfelt feelings of ecstatic love of God, which in turn causes the soul to be indifferent to the pleasures and pains of the material world.
I am very pleased and excited to read your words that describe that the body and soul, according to Catholic Catechism, are two different entities, different qualities. According to to our Vedic literatures, the soul is eternal, the soul is conscious……while the material body is temporal, dead matter (“ashes to ashes, dust to dust”). But as long as the eternal conscious spirit soul is “housed” within the material form, the consciousness of the spirit pervades the mind and material senses, thereby causing the soul to feel, “I am this body”. In this way, the soul tries to satisfy himself by trying to satisfy the material sense………which can never be satisfied (except for a few moments). The idea put forward by Veda is that the satisfaction of the soul can only be attained in the reciprocation of love with God. Therefore we see, even in the lives of the Catholic saints, that those who are closer to God become progressively indifferent to the demands of the material senses, and the concept that I am a man or a woman, which applies to the material form. Therefore the saints are devoid of sexual impulse, but see all people on earth as pure spiritual entities.
I do understand from your words, that the discussion, or debate ,in relation to the concept of reincarnation goes far back in history, and has been around for a long time. At what point in time does the body of the fetus receive the soul, and become conscious, according to your faith?
Another question that arises…….according Catholicism, does the deserving soul go to heaven, or is he risen from the grave?
I like your answer: “existence itself is a pure gift.” But to experience existence in this way…..this requires a very high attainment of spiritual “realization”, known by very few……the ones that we call the saints.
I have an appointment now. But will return to our conversation later today. Thank you so much for conversing with me. Peter
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### Author:  [@Literalman](https://forum.catholictalk.net/u/Literalman)
#### Post date: [November 29, 2025, 7:14pm UTC](https://forum.catholictalk.net/t/why-do-many-atheists-believe-in-aliens-but-not-god/1895/72 "2025-11-29T19:14:24Z")
“Hi Literalman (my dear friend, if I may),” I am honored. I don’t use Facebook, so I don’t have any Facebook friends. All my friends are real (I’m not saying that no Facebook friends are real, but Facebook seems to use the word “friend” loosely. 🙂 One coworker joked that becoming my friend (she was one; I was at her wedding) is not easy: it requires forms and application fees.
It’s been more than 60 years since I studied the Baltimore Catechism. I don’t remember much besides the words I quoted. However, I found a copy online at [The Baltimore Catechism](https://www.catholicity.com/baltimore-catechism/). In the part about the resurrection and life everlasting, I don’t see anything about what life in heaven will be like.
I think that the Baltimore Catechism has been superseded by the Catechism of the Catholic Church, which is online at [Catechism of the Catholic Church | Catholic Culture](https://www.catholicculture.org/culture/library/catechism/index.cfm) . There may be something about life in heaven in the Catechism of the Catholic Church, but with a short look I didn’t find it.
So here is my understanding of Catholic teaching on life after death as it regards heaven:
God created us as incarnate spirits: spirits with bodies.
After death, those in heaven are happy, that is not their ultimate destiny. After the resurrection, they will once again be incarnate spirits living in a new, perfect physical world.
After death, we will see God as He is (1 John 3:2). OK, but what is that like? “As they enter the vision of God, they become like Him,” wrote Father Richard Simon under the playful pen name “Reverend Know-It-All.” In another place, he wrote, “We sit around staring at God … It all sounds very boring.… What the Bible really says is that you can’t even begin to imagine how wonderful heaven will be, but you can begin to experience it a little if you get to know Christ.… He wants us to move in with Him. We are His children, and he want us to move back home! We have a room at Dad’s house, and when we grow up we will be just like Him. He will be part of us and we will be part of Him, just as Jesus already is. At least that’s what St. John seemed to think.… The beatific vision, staring at God for an eternity, is not quite as boring as it might first appear. Have you ever fallen in love?” A man looking at his bride, a mother looking at her baby asleep—”There is nothing as beautiful, as wonderful as the simple joy of seeing someone you love. Heaven is to behold the beloved perfectly and forever. If you have ever fallen in love, you’ve experienced a pale shadow of the wonder of heaven. To be perfectly in love forever with someone who is really worthy of all our devotion. That is worship. That is heaven.”
That’s kind of abstract, but I don’t think I can get closer to the truth than Father Simon did.
After the resurrection, I expect that we will live in a physical world that is just as God intended before sin entered the world.
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